In Fairness to England

[BaggyTrousers]

The average attendance for the pool stages was 49,146 per match. So effectively every match so far has filled the Avia but who knows maybe the Irish Government will fund the rebuild of GAA's grounds around the country bringing them into the 21st C with 40,000 plus all seater stadia just to help out.

Cockers you are comparing apples with mushrooms. There are of course visitors but Ireland doesn't have the population to have crowds of that magnitude per pool game.

We're that the only consideration, amongst rugby nations, only England and possibly France could host. I say possibly because I was in France during the 2007 edition and there wasn't even TV coverage for many of the games, apparently because zFrogs weren't remotely interested in the wee country matches I.e. any game not involving France.

[BaggyTrousers]

Yep, on the face of it it has been very successful. The only place they fell down was choosing the King Power Stadium over Welford Road. Besides that, can't complain.

Did they not sell KingPower Stadium out

Over 30000 so clearly more than Welford Road could hold, I wondered about the comment but knowing that Ruckie has the same happy memories of Welford Road as me, I let that one slide.

[Kofi Annan]

not sure how Ireland can realistically hope to host the RWC in whatever year it is unless we play a large percentage of games in the rest of the UK… The stadia have been excellent and even some of the so called 'smaller' games are all being played in grounds that make Kingspan look small… Even with the GAA coming to the rescue.

Totally disagree, Cockatrice. As the big stadia, there are Croke and Lansdowne: as smaller rugby stadia, you have Thomond (26,500), Ravenhill (18,200 or possibly bigger), RDS (24,000 by then). They can probably make the Sportsground in Galway bigger than Sandy Park at least. Then, from GAA, there are (or will be) stadia holding 35,000 or more in Belfast (yes Casement will be built by then), Clones, Tipperary, Killarney, Galway, Limerick and Cork.
So, absolutely no problem.

I know this will surprise you but I disagree, we don't just not have the stadiums , we also just don't have the facilities that would be required to support the teams, nor would we have the accommodation in the island, I think if your ambition is to hold it, your ambition should to totally upstage the previous tournaments, can we Ireland do that, I doubt it. I would love it to be here but it just won't happen. England sold over 2.5m match day tickets

Rocky, the show grounds in Galway . How many games would you put there? Is there enough accommodation , where would you have team training bases with world class facilities no disrespect but both clubs in Galway would not be good enough as team bases for an under 20s WC, and Galwegian won't get any more loans

Say we have two games in Belfast over a seven day period, Casement and Ravers, with a projected crowd of say 60-70k plus, we would need 4 team hotels at least of 4 star quality and associated facilities with world class training pitches etc, then you will need accomadation for fans, (when the Irish open was here people could not get rooms in Belfast) sorry but we just are not big enough.



I would love it to happen , but sadly we just don't have what it takes

[Big Smoke Culchie]

not sure how Ireland can realistically hope to host the RWC in whatever year it is unless we play a large percentage of games in the rest of the UK… The stadia have been excellent and even some of the so called 'smaller' games are all being played in grounds that make Kingspan look small… Even with the GAA coming to the rescue.

Totally disagree, Cockatrice. As the big stadia, there are Croke and Lansdowne: as smaller rugby stadia, you have Thomond (26,500), Ravenhill (18,200 or possibly bigger), RDS (24,000 by then). They can probably make the Sportsground in Galway bigger than Sandy Park at least. Then, from GAA, there are (or will be) stadia holding 35,000 or more in Belfast (yes Casement will be built by then), Clones, Tipperary, Killarney, Galway, Limerick and Cork.
So, absolutely no problem.

I will never, ever set foot inside Casement Park. Ever.

[Rooster]

Yep, on the face of it it has been very successful. The only place they fell down was choosing the King Power Stadium over Welford Road. Besides that, can't complain.

Did they not sell KingPower Stadium out

They could not use Welford road under any circumstances because their pitch does not meet the minimum size dimensions for a full International match, it is not long enough and could have been enlarged when they rebuilt the end stand but they chose not to do that.

[Cockatrice]

Baggy… The RWC in France had average attendances of 47,000 and up to now the record. New Zealand past seen a drop and now this RWC looks set to break records for attendance. I have a feeling that Japan will surprise a few people and then what a choice between the USA and Ireland.

We ain't big enough and without billions of investment in stadia upgrades we are likely to have Australia v England at Kingspan with an 18,500 sell out. We may want to see that but I suspect that TV, Sponsors and the IRB might like something bigger.

[Russ]

Yep, on the face of it it has been very successful. The only place they fell down was choosing the King Power Stadium over Welford Road. Besides that, can't complain.

Did they not sell KingPower Stadium out

Yes and given Welford Road is a building site one can assume they made the right choice

[Kofi Annan]

not sure how Ireland can realistically hope to host the RWC in whatever year it is unless we play a large percentage of games in the rest of the UK… The stadia have been excellent and even some of the so called 'smaller' games are all being played in grounds that make Kingspan look small… Even with the GAA coming to the rescue.

Totally disagree, Cockatrice. As the big stadia, there are Croke and Lansdowne: as smaller rugby stadia, you have Thomond (26,500), Ravenhill (18,200 or possibly bigger), RDS (24,000 by then). They can probably make the Sportsground in Galway bigger than Sandy Park at least. Then, from GAA, there are (or will be) stadia holding 35,000 or more in Belfast (yes Casement will be built by then), Clones, Tipperary, Killarney, Galway, Limerick and Cork.
So, absolutely no problem.

I will never, ever set foot inside Casement Park. Ever.

Pool draws and match venues are done by a draw well in advanve of the start, lets imagine England V Namibia 2023 at Casement Park But maybe by 2023 the will have set aside the dislike for England in that part of the United Kingdom might even have a fanezone at Biddy Duffys adorned with England flags, hey they might even rename it the Howes Wood Memorial Stadium

[BaggyTrousers]

Baggy… The RWC in France had average attendances of 47,000 and up to now the record. New Zealand past seen a drop and now this RWC looks set to break records for attendance. I have a feeling that Japan will surprise a few people and then what a choice between the USA and Ireland.

We ain't big enough and without billions of investment in stadia upgrades we are likely to have Australia v England at Kingspan with an 18,500 sell out. We may want to see that but I suspect that TV, Sponsors and the IRB might like something bigger.

FFS Cockers are you on the halfwit pills this last few days? I expect better of you than this ould hand. Yes of course France can stage a RWC, they have the population the facilities rugby & otherwise BUT if you read what I wrote I specifically mentioned their national TV coverage was sparse to non-existent for non-French games.

I have no doubt Ireland could stage a wonderful world cup, as a spectacle, but as Kofi says, like Royal Portrush and the Open, it's not simply about the stadia, it's all the other stuff that is required logistically and it simply doesn't appear to be there in sufficient quantities.

I would be happy with a smaller version - we simply can't compete with England on the grounds of scale - but will World Rugby see it that way? I would be just as happy for the old way of having the tournament based all around the British Isles using the best rugby stadia - I'm not fond of games being played on tiny wee football pitches, nor in all honesty on massive GAA pitches. Think back to the Croker days and barring one or two massive occasions it was like having a knees up in a morgue.

Slightly tongue in cheek, but only slightly, I also feel that every major rugby occasion in these isles should culminate with a Cardiff final, it is by a very large distance the finest rugby ground in the NH, everyone on top of the playing surface, slap bang in the city centre, none of the Twickenham nonsense of being at least half a pitch length from the playing surface - oh how I loathe Twickenham - not to mention it being full of ugly drunken fat English ganches who resent the mere presence of "other races".

[Russ]

Given the Millenium stadium will host games at Japan 2019 I see no issue with the home nations hosting once every 4 or 6 events and each country managing logistics and hosting the final

[mikerob]

World Rugby require a guaranteed amount from the host union plus World Rugby get money from broadcast rights, sponsorship and the like.

The host union will try and provide the guaranteed amount from ticket sales then will get to keep the money above and beyond this.

So in countries like England and France where they can sell lots of tickets, the host union makes money.

But in countries like NZ where they can't sell lots of tickets, the NZ government needed to make up the difference and the host union didn't make money directly. The NZ government view was they would get their contribution to the hosting money back and then some from all the visitors to the country.

So up to a point, World Rugby doesn't actually care how big the venues are and how many tickets get sold, they just want their guaranteed money from the host union, and will want guarantees from a government that the money will be underwritten if ticket sales aren't sufficient to cover this.

Now I don't know if the IRFU think they can sell enough tickets to cover the World Rugby hosting price money, but in theory, it doesn't really matter as long as the governments (I assume it is north and south...) say they will underwrite this.

So a bigger question for World Rugby will likely be how much money they can get from broadcasters and sponsors if the RWC was hosted in Ireland compared to Italy or S Africa.

It won't be a case of the biggest attendance will automatically get the world cup.

[ruckover]

Apologies, I thought they overlooked Welford Road simply in favour of the bigger stadium. Didn't realise there were issues with the pitch dimensions.

And as Baggy knows (and some others on here) I do have fond memories of the place

[Cap'n Grumpy]

Apart from size- WR is apparently 91m post to post and the smallest pitch size for RWC is apparently 95m plus in-goal and St James's footy ground just scrapes in by shortening the pitch to accommodate in-goal - I have heard it claimed that there were other issues with WR.

Apparently the changing rooms are not big enough to hold a full match day squad of 23 plus hangers-on - at WR, they use adjacent rooms but that is not acceptable for RWC.

Also, apparently, for RWC there must be stand-alone suitable drug-testing facilities and at WR, they normally use the referee's changing room after he has vacated that, but that again is unacceptable for RWC.

I am unsure if all these "apparent" facts (or excuses for not using WR) are true or not - and I cannot be assed verifying.

[BaggyTrousers]

Apart from size- WR is apparently 91m post to post and the smallest pitch size for RWC is apparently 95m plus in-goal and St James's footy ground just scrapes in by shortening the pitch to accommodate in-goal - I have heard it claimed that there were other issues with WR.

Apparently the changing rooms are not big enough to hold a full match day squad of 23 plus hangers-on - at WR, they use adjacent rooms but that is not acceptable for RWC.

Also, apparently, for RWC there must be stand-alone suitable drug-testing facilities and at WR, they normally use the referee's changing room after he has vacated that, but that again is unacceptable for RWC.

I am unsure if all these "apparent" facts (or excuses for not using WR) are true or not - and I cannot be assed verifying.

With my limited interest in the subject Grumps, I'm more than happy to accept your information as : authoritative

You been helped .......... or at least, backed up............ but not in a trap 2 type of back up.

I like Welford Road, best post match knees up in rugby***, especially on 18/1/2014, as you, Fermain, Russ, Ruckus, our respective entourages & doubtless many others here can testify.

EDIT: *** Oh all right, I can't resist it - WR makes the apres match at Spanners look like a joyless, stoney-faced Presbyterian abstentionists gathering.............which in fact isn't as far removed from the truth as it might be.

[rocky]

not sure how Ireland can realistically hope to host the RWC in whatever year it is unless we play a large percentage of games in the rest of the UK… The stadia have been excellent and even some of the so called 'smaller' games are all being played in grounds that make Kingspan look small… Even with the GAA coming to the rescue.

Totally disagree, Cockatrice. As the big stadia, there are Croke and Lansdowne: as smaller rugby stadia, you have Thomond (26,500), Ravenhill (18,200 or possibly bigger), RDS (24,000 by then). They can probably make the Sportsground in Galway bigger than Sandy Park at least. Then, from GAA, there are (or will be) stadia holding 35,000 or more in Belfast (yes Casement will be built by then), Clones, Tipperary, Killarney, Galway, Limerick and Cork.
So, absolutely no problem.

I will never, ever set foot inside Casement Park. Ever.

That is, firstly, irrelevant to the discussion and, secondly, entirely your own problem, BSC. When it happens (and it will happen some day, if not in 2023) then it will surely be your own loss, not to be able to watch live RWC matches in your own backyard.