Madigan

[BaggyTrousers]

Grumps, there may well be something in what you've said, I may indeed have "sexed" Cleary incorrectly, if so, forgive me ma'am, I intended no slight.

I think Grumps that this may be one of those rare occasions where "you've been helped" applies to us both

[clearlyoffside]

He can cover centre and full back apparently so my guess is he's better to have on the bench as PJ only covers 10.

That is the chisel that Fibber wants the whole country to believe.The problem lies not with Jackson but entirely to the umbilical cord that ties FibberJose to his trusted Mexicans.

They do have a good squad but really 14 out of the matchday squad after the season they've had? The Kearney Brothers?

I almost choked on my gruel when I heard the decent solid Fergus McFadden was called up. He must give great head.

That said, I'm happy as Larry that he ignores Paddy without whom three of Uster's recent wins would have been defeats.

Oh I agree entirely, the problem isn't just Ian Madigan but the players selected from one provinces who haven't even been close to winning anything this year over players who have hit great form for other provinces just because 'Schmidt knows them' or 'they already play well together' (and if the latter were true, surely Marshall and McCloskey should have had game time)

All I mean is that Madigan on the bench is a lot more appealing on paper than PJ as he covers more positions. Schmidt obviously is very aware the backs he picks for his match day 15 are generally useless (minus the occasional brilliance of Payne, Henshaw and Trimble and of course an on-form Sexton) and most likely to break at least one or two per game (like today). That said, I would rather see PJ starting at 10 and Madigan to cover and imo the argument that Madigan covers more is generally invalid with how Schmidt plays given he only seems to ever replace Sexton, not anyone else. But, that's Schmidt's logic as to why Madigan has a place on the bench over Jackson. and if Sexton is not playing the next game, no doubt Madigan will start with PJ benched when really PJ should be starting with 'versatile' Mads on the bench, and I would actually like to see PJ beginning to start over Sexton with either Sexton or Madigan on the bench. If he's taken off at half time for Sexton/Madigan it's not a big deal, but to actually have him starting and featuring in matches other than for the last 20mins against a side like Romania would help prepare him for when he (hopefully) takes over from Sexton and leave Ireland in the position of having 2 strong out-halves to choose from who both have experience starting and off the bench in big international games. Sexton won't be around much longer, and when he does finally break we're left with the Leinster second choice who is honestly a better bench option, and the Ulster first choice who has suffered because of a coach who would rather play an injury target and his second-in-line like he did when he coached Leinster.

But yeah, back on topic, would rather Jackson starts with Madigan on the bench, or he doesn't start at all and his name isn't tied to the absolute dire bulldung seen today where no doubt he would be turned on like Mads was after the WC despite the loss being more than the fault of 1 player on the pitch (as was the case with Argentina and France).

Imo, Jackson now faces the same problem as Madigan in that he never will get any proper match time under Schmidt until he's broken Sexton past the point of no return and even then he'll probably be hailing Madigan as the next saviour so Jackson will suffer the same way Madigan has as being second choice and not getting half as many starts or half as much match time as he should have for both Ireland and Leinster and in turn not developing into the player he should have. I'm glad Mads is away to France so a) he gets more match time in general b) him not being here will hopefully move PJ up the pecking order

Schmidt's gameplan doesn't seem to benefit anyone, especially if he's still hasn't found the next BOD

[clearlyoffside]

Grumps, there may well be something in what you've said, I may indeed have "sexed" Cleary incorrectly, if so, forgive me ma'am, I intended no slight.

I think Grumps that this may be one of those rare occasions where "you've been helped" applies to us both

aha, sorry for the long replies on this thread. I am indeed a ma'am not a sir, as well as being relatively new to the game and still a little shaky on some parts of the game itself (so please correct me where I may be wrong - a previous casual fan who has found a lack of being able to do any sport a reason to enjoy rugby a lot more). A knee injury has ruled me out of playing or even learning to play for the time being and unfortunately as an equestrian the times I can get to see my own sport competitively are few and far between, even on TV, so I've now swapped kicking and clicking at the sofa for kicking sofa cushions and swearing at it for making a bad call

[againstthehead]

Wales and France were 'tough' games to start with so that is why Joe went pretty conservative with his selection. I'd expect a 'little' experimentation against the likes of Scotland and Italy. Due to enforced injuries, the team has had a lot of changes already so throwing the likes of Jackson and McCloskey into the mix would not have helped IMHO. They are at the age and ability where they deserve a chance to get some gametime and integrate into the squad. If they can do the job at home against the 'lesser' nations then I have no doubt they will be selected for bigger games. In saying that, with Irish pack decimated I doubt there will be any 'easy' games during this campaign...

[Dharper]

Ire have never won 3 on the trot, so JS rightly has tried to go for the win, Not player development. It was always bloody slim with all the injuries in the pack which have caught us out terribly in the last 35 minutes of both games, which under normal circumstances I'd fancy us to win both without those savage injuries to the pack. JS has always with his bench favoured utilities ie madigan and McFadden who can slot into many positions and do a job. As opposed to a specialist is mccloskey who could come in BUT mean a 2/3 person regig of the back line and lose momentum/ structure etc. ire apparently budget for a 4th place 6 n finish. Will JS gamble on talent?....if we go with what we have I believe Scotland will turn us over. If I was joe is go for broke, and if we lose trust the irfu hasn't got the balls to sack him. To be fair most of the calls are in the backs and our real probs are in the pack. I'd defo start PJ in at least one game, and give sexton the summer off, and Jacko bedded in. Things keep going sexton won't last 18 months. Front 5 options have really killed us last 2 weeks.

[thecrouch]

The selection of Madigan continues to get on my wick. What good is versatility if the guy is actually of questionable ability in all of the positions he is supposedly able to play. Great, he can play more than one position poorly and no positions well.

The restart out on the full was such a fecking stupid thing to do that he deserves to be dropped from the squad indefinitely for it. 10 minutes to go and we have time to go sneak a win. Just launch the bloody ball deep and make France work to get rid of it, don't go for this fecking fancy restart to compete for the ball.

And this, right after your side had spent 5 minutes getting done up the dunger in the scrum!!! Unforgivable. The forwards must have been ready to rip his bake off.

He offers nothing as a 10. The guy couldn't run a bath, never mind a back line.

[rumncoke]

The backs didn't lose the game yesterday .

And most of the flak Joe is getting is in relation to his back line . Joe like most coaches does not select a tactical bench back line but players to cover injury and given that there are only 3 places on the bench for backs and there are two specialist positions scrum half and out half the only specialist on the bench can be scrum half. thus the back line subs tend to be a players who would not be first choice selections if the first choice were injured prior to the match.

Madigan is the exception because in my opinion Joe does not think that PJs kicking game is good enough either out of hand or off the tee and to be honest he may have a point. If your playing ball in hand rugby PJ is definitely streets ahead but the Irish pack at the moment is not one I would back to secure 50 % possession and 50% territory over 80 minutes.

When you look at the pack and those who are missing it is obvious that the french guessed / worked out correctly that in the second half Ireland were going to tire and have to make substitions and further weaken the pack . this was assisted by the early injury to SoB and McCarthy who had to be introduced early than joe intented.

[rumncoke]

Then there is the myth that leinster are having a hard time , take the ERC games out of the equation and based on PRO form

Ulster Played 14 won 8 lost 5 T/F 34 t/a 16

leinster played 13 won 10 lost 3 T/F 32 T/a 13

Their record is better than Ulster's granted they may have played more home matches than Ulster to date and they may have a better front row and back row than Ulster at the moment. and those account of 6 places on the Ireland team.

Thus in the final analysis The selection question comes down to 3 places full back centre, and sub bench 10 and based on friday night Gilroy v Zebo/ Earls on the wing ,

Before Friday in my opinion Gilroy was as much out of form as Earls and Zebo.

[Dharper]

Hopefully with this 2 week break it'll give Ross and Healy time to bed back in, and take pressure off the front row situation. Also McCarthy might not make it with the head injury, so we might get a look at dillane, if JS thinks he knows his playbook. Also Henry too. I'm more concerned about the second row options than the front row personally.

[Dharper]

On the PJ kicking / game management angle. I'll say this, since presumably the irfu directed UR to get him to take over from ruan he has improved a lot. This season he's nolonger a talented young player, he has stepped up and is a confident man looking in control when playing for UR. No coincidence when he's come off the bench the last 2 weeks we've won the game. Hopefully scot/Italy he's given a go by Schmidt.

[fuzzylogic]

Unread postby againstthehead » Sun Feb 14, 2016 12:30 am

Wales and France were 'tough' games to start with so that is why Joe went pretty conservative with his selection. I'd expect a 'little' experimentation against the likes of Scotland and Italy.

I wish I shared your optimism ATH, but alas I do not.

Scotland are shaping up to be a decent side under cotter. They are a big physical side with a decent kicker and pace to burn in the backs. They could be a decent force over the next few seasons if they can get the silly errors under control.

[Eggs]

Rum, it's blatantly clear to all that the back line didn't lose us the game, but then beyond a decent defensive performance, what did they contribute??

The reason for Schmidt coming under pressure about the backs selection is that he did have options there, whereas he really had very few in the forwards

[rumncoke]

Eggs at International level the team who win is the one which makes the fewest mistakes

Ireland lost yesterday because the forwards were under pressure and the French scored from the 4th five metre scrum .

The point is that Leinster have a sound defence and Joe is playing a team that can defend and make few mistakes in the back line

Which is why of all Joes selection the biggest question mark is Zebo whose defence is frequently none existing other than catch and kick .



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[Scranner]

Surely the fact that we had used a lot of our subs before half time and thus had nothing left for "impact" has something to do with the fact that we lost such a close game?

[Rooster]

Surely the fact that we had used a lot of our subs before half time and thus had nothing left for "impact" has something to do with the fact that we lost such a close game?

What impact was there to start with?