The UAFC

Ward unconvinced by Kiss' Ulster leadership http://bbc.in/2pnGQrI via @bbcsport

Hi Neil

"We had more success with Neil Doak as coach than under Les Kiss. So why is Neil going? It was the same thing with Brian McLaughlin," Ward told BBC Radio Ulster's Sportsound."

Has Doak been ranting to Ward?

exile-fer-now wrote:Ward unconvinced by Kiss' Ulster leadership http://bbc.in/2pnGQrI via @bbcsport

There may be a thread in the Doon Thae Pub that you haven't tried yet

DWFinn wrote:Doak took a session at Queens when I was there. Chewed the hole off me during a training match for taking a calculated risk that didn't come off. Never liked him since.

I abused him for being ginger once

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As I said earlier this appointment lacks ambition and that's not a quality I want in a head coach, all the best Neil wherever you end up

Russ...is it actually possible to abuse a ginger?

Looks to me like an admission on Doak's part that he either still has a lot to learn before being able to step up to pro12 coaching level or he likes to be a big fish in a small pond.

Fair play to Clarke for at least testing himself outside the cosy confines of ulster, similar to McCall, who arguably took a step down post ulster to become backs coach at Castres, but undoubtedly benefitted from it in the longer term.

Anyway, as i have said before, i wish both Doak and Clarke well in their new roles.

CIMANFOREVER wrote:
In many management jobs, I was always told by those whose word I trusted, that when starting out, give a job 3 years- 1st year to familiarise yourself, 2nd year to stamp your mark, 3rd year to be looking for your next move onwards and/ or upwards before you become stale... he's past that stage imo. Not many coaches in a job for that many years. Not good for him either I would surmise.

I heard the same view by an ex Shell Oil CEO who said a good CEO needs those 3 years and if things are going well another 2 are acceptable then move, perhaps Logan would be well advised to follow the same route, by the way not all CEO's move up higher some by choice take lesser jobs after a high pressure one to ease on stress and get themselves geared up for a bigger task, Glenarm Castle Walled Garden and Tearoom are looking for a general manager at present which sounds pretty good on your CV for the future as you could drop the Walled Garden and Tearoom bit

thecrouch wrote:"We had more success with Neil Doak as coach than under Les Kiss. So why is Neil going? It was the same thing with Brian McLaughlin," Ward told BBC Radio Ulster's Sportsound."

Has Doak been ranting to Ward?

Well if what I have heard is correct since Kiss took over Doak is supposed to have been reduced to cone and bib collector then if you think back prior to that Andy is pretty correct in his thinking.

Rooster wrote:

thecrouch wrote:"We had more success with Neil Doak as coach than under Les Kiss. So why is Neil going? It was the same thing with Brian McLaughlin," Ward told BBC Radio Ulster's Sportsound."

Has Doak been ranting to Ward?

Well if what I have heard is correct since Kiss took over Doak is supposed to have been reduced to cone and bib collector then if you think back prior to that Andy is pretty correct in his thinking.

Doesn't say much for Doak's character or ambition then if he stuck at it for so long and still had to be pushed out the door.

Anyway, i am sure you could easily find someone "in the know" to say it was all Doak's/Clarke's/Kiss's fault as there will be 3 sides to every coin in this case.

Bart S wrote:

Rooster wrote:

thecrouch wrote:"We had more success with Neil Doak as coach than under Les Kiss. So why is Neil going? It was the same thing with Brian McLaughlin," Ward told BBC Radio Ulster's Sportsound."

Has Doak been ranting to Ward?

Well if what I have heard is correct since Kiss took over Doak is supposed to have been reduced to cone and bib collector then if you think back prior to that Andy is pretty correct in his thinking.

Doesn't say much for Doak's character or ambition then if he stuck at it for so long and still had to be pushed out the door.

Anyway, i am sure you could easily find someone "in the know" to say it was all Doak's/Clarke's/Kiss's fault as there will be 3 sides to every coin in this case.

If the man has a contract and is getting his wages why would he just leave, you could argue he was not pushed out the door just his contract was not renewed, others in the past have been pushed.
The whole Doak/ Clarke thing was not going to work from the start as ego probably got in the way and when one was promoted over the other that was not going to help, we also hae the daft situation in Ulster where we pick new head coaches and hand them assistants already in place while it would be much better and easier all round to see problems if the head coach picks his own team.

Rooster wrote:

Bart S wrote:

Rooster wrote:

thecrouch wrote:"We had more success with Neil Doak as coach than under Les Kiss. So why is Neil going? It was the same thing with Brian McLaughlin," Ward told BBC Radio Ulster's Sportsound."

Has Doak been ranting to Ward?

Well if what I have heard is correct since Kiss took over Doak is supposed to have been reduced to cone and bib collector then if you think back prior to that Andy is pretty correct in his thinking.

Doesn't say much for Doak's character or ambition then if he stuck at it for so long and still had to be pushed out the door.

Anyway, i am sure you could easily find someone "in the know" to say it was all Doak's/Clarke's/Kiss's fault as there will be 3 sides to every coin in this case.

If the man has a contract and is getting his wages why would he just leave, you could argue he was not pushed out the door just his contract was not renewed, others in the past have been pushed.
The whole Doak/ Clarke thing was not going to work from the start as ego probably got in the way and when one was promoted over the other that was not going to help, we also hae the daft situation in Ulster where we pick new head coaches and hand them assistants already in place while it would be much better and easier all round to see problems if the head coach picks his own team.

I wonder did UR give KISS the choice to stick or pick? if he choose to stick then we must hold him more accountable than we are because he seems to be getting off with it because of being simply ladened with dumb and dumber.. if he said he wanted to pick then why did he wait 12 months..

As Andy Ward said on Saturday, Ulster were better under Doak than Kiss. Kiss depowered Doak & Clarke. He would have started the season tasked to get a SDC quarter and win the Pro12 with a bare minimum of a semi, well tanked and bottom of group in SDC, 5th in a league with 6 remotely competitive teams, 7 if you include last seasons champs.

A rank failure by any standards, he grab full control and has failed miserably. He does not deserve anything but a P45 and feck off down the bru.

UR of course won't have the balls to sack him, he's dead coach walking and only the coat tails of Gibbes can delay the inevitable.

As for Doak, I wish him well, it's been steadily downhill for Ulster since he was sidelined. I do agree however that he's been here too long, but I regret some of my comments before the scales dropped from my eyes. Same with Clarke.

BaggyTrousers wrote:As Andy Ward said on Saturday, Ulster were better under Doak than Kiss. Kiss depowered Doak & Clarke. He would have started the season tasked to get a SDC quarter and win the Pro12 with a bare minimum of a semi, well tanked and bottom of group in SDC, 5th in a league with 6 remotely competitive teams, 7 if you include last seasons champs.

A rank failure by any standards, he grab full control and has failed miserably. He does not deserve anything but a P45 and feck off down the bru.

UR of course won't have the balls to sack him, he's dead coach walking and only the coat tails of Gibbes can delay the inevitable.

As for Doak, I wish him well, it's been steadily downhill for Ulster since he was sidelined. I do agree however that he's been here too long, but I regret some of my comments before the scales dropped from my eyes. Same with Clarke.

Careful of Wards comments as this isn't exactly coming from a neutral standpoint.
I don't share your rose tinted glasses over Doak Bagster.
As backs and skills coach over the best part of decade we have zero to show for it and he should have bitten the bullet years ago and would have done in any other set up
.
As for his "choice" to go to Queens, was it a choice or his only offer?.
No I don't think I'll accept the Clermont gig as I'd get a bit homesick is probably nothing like a consideration Doak would have made.

I think the earlier poster who was reprimanded by Doak for taking a risk sums it up.
Its not about taking the risk it's about when and where you do it.
That's the coaching point Doak has never got to grips with.
Also the aimless kicking game on view the season he was in charge was up there with the worst rugby I have ever seen.

As for Kiss I guess I am the only man on here prepared to cut him slack.
I expect a huge improvement next season with the coaching staff on board less the two millstones.
And you can call me Susan if it isn't so.