question... for everyone...

[rumncoke]

I stated at the time of the discussion of the formation of the SDC that the Pro 12 sides were at a serious disadvantage unless there was a limitation on the number of NIQ players to be included in a match day squad .

NIQ non iternational qualified players i.e. imports player should be qualified to play for the International team of the union of which the club is a member my suggested quota being 6 non qualified max per match squad .

I also stated my opinion that the SDC is but a step to a 38 team European leagues two first teir and a second tier league.

Given the attendance at yesterdays game my conclusion is that in the current format games lose appeal frequently due to the fact that sides are playing each other to often Ulster will play the scarlets 4 times this season with two of those games being back to back not really a way to attact crowds to a game .

Where as consider a two 12 team league situation with a play offs for a champion ship Cup top four in each qualifing for the play off .Each Leagues consisting of 4 french 4 English 4 pro 12 and the qualifing League the remainder of the current leagues

such a league stucture would avoid the current over exposed competition of two teams such as Ulster v the Scarlets

Imagine 4 french teams at Kingspan each year or 4 premiership teams . with a 25 game max fixture list there would be some fixture slack for each Union to hold its own mini championship/cup competition 12 games each weekend would allow for maximium television rights and sub rights .

Always considered the SDC to be an ill conceived rushed comprimise rather than a negotated solution.to a number of problems faced by the game.

[Snipe Watson]

Im not sure all the criticism of our NIQ players being 'not good enough' is warranted, I mean-

RP- obviously the exception
Nick- was excellent, has gone off the boil but I am not convinced that it was obvious that was going to happen when he was given his second contract.
VdM- has been very good, but pretty hard to live up to JM
Ludik- the boy can play, and his flexibility is a real bonus to us, allowing us to move him around as required. Plus he could qualify become IQ in 3 years
Herbst- Very good scrummager, young, and about as good a project as I think you will find, since were he much better SA would have been getting interested.

Of all of our current crop, the only one I would wonder a little about is actually VdM, as given that the management have clearly decided that Hendo is to be a 2nd row, I don't think that VdM would feature in our strongest 15. RP, Herbst definitely would. Ludik probably would. A fully fit Nick definitely would.

The real problem is that we need more than 4 NIQs, with the level of players other teams now have in Europe, and the high injury rate which is becoming the norm in rugby, there just aren't enough IQ players around.

Failing that perhaps we should be throwing silly money at those who are (e.g. Steenson), but then we are going to be throwing big money at back up players.
(Although I think Steenson would become our first choice ten if he was here, but its not going to happen!)

Our NIQs with the exception of Ruan are not world class. Johann was a world class leader and a very good player. Afoa was very good, for a year or so. Nick is a one trick pony who was rumbled. ludik is a good player who gives us options and is a good addition to our squad. Terblanche was world class, although by the time he came here he was past his best, but showed some real class at times. P3 was a very good hard as nails player who made the most of what he had. VdM is a good player.
Toulon only sign world class players, not the good or even very good brand.

[Rooster]

http://www.thescore.ie/ulster-neil-doak ... 9-Dec2014/

“We knew from last week after Leicester beat Toulon that three wins would be there or thereabouts for us,” Doak said to BT Sport.
“We’ll take stock and the next game against Toulon away is obviously going to be a very difficult challenge but we’ve got to keep fighting to the end until mathematically it’s not there for us.”

Very difficult?

That's the understatement of the century.

Even if we beat Toulon and Tigers, we then need Scarlets to also beat Toulon.

The bookies aren't even offering odds on Ulster now which says it all really.

Points wise at present we are 16th out of 20 and 8 go through, look at the other pools and there is more chance of Marty and Peter getting married in one of those civil ceremonies and Ashers baking them a cake with Willie McCrea doing the service than there is of Ulster qualifying this season.

[Snipe Watson]

http://www.thescore.ie/ulster-neil-doak ... 9-Dec2014/

“We knew from last week after Leicester beat Toulon that three wins would be there or thereabouts for us,” Doak said to BT Sport.
“We’ll take stock and the next game against Toulon away is obviously going to be a very difficult challenge but we’ve got to keep fighting to the end until mathematically it’s not there for us.”

Very difficult?

That's the understatement of the century.

Even if we beat Toulon and Tigers, we then need Scarlets to also beat Toulon.

The bookies aren't even offering odds on Ulster now which says it all really.

Points wise at present we are 16th out of 20 and 8 go through, look at the other pools and there is more chance of Marty and Peter getting married in one of those civil ceremonies and Ashers baking them a cake with Willie McCrea doing the service than there is of Ulster qualifying this season.

If we had the wedding on the pitch at Ravenhill, we could sell enough tickets to buy McCaw out from under Toulon.

[MARB]

IMO our NIQ's (with the exception of Ruan) are acceptable, bordering on pretty poor. Well in comparison to other seasons anyway- think back to the days of P3- a blend of both power and agility, a fit and fully focused Afoa who was probably one of the best all round props in the NH at his pomp, Johann, a leader of men, Ruan, and Payne with a 15 on his back.

If we want to be right at the top end of the table season after season we need to be aiming higher than our current stock. Ludik is dependable, with the occasional moment of very good play, Nick has 1 good game out of 10- not really what you want from your talismanic ball carrier. VDM is a good player but give me a fully fit Johann over him any day. I'd love to know why the reason a landmark back row signing wasn't completely and utterly prioritised over summer- oh what I'd give for a Vermeulen or a Kaino sort of player in our back row, an area in which we are painfully lacking.

It's getting very frustrating seeing teams back rows run riot against ours. FFS recently (bar Reidy) Nugget and Rory have been our best players when it comes to jackling. Speaks volumes about our back row.

I'm aware this probably all goes without saying- just a rant I needed to vent somehow.

[BuckRogers]

Im not sure all the criticism of our NIQ players being 'not good enough' is warranted, I mean-

RP- obviously the exception
Nick- was excellent, has gone off the boil but I am not convinced that it was obvious that was going to happen when he was given his second contract.
VdM- has been very good, but pretty hard to live up to JM
Ludik- the boy can play, and his flexibility is a real bonus to us, allowing us to move him around as required. Plus he could qualify become IQ in 3 years
Herbst- Very good scrummager, young, and about as good a project as I think you will find, since were he much better SA would have been getting interested.

Of all of our current crop, the only one I would wonder a little about is actually VdM, as given that the management have clearly decided that Hendo is to be a 2nd row, I don't think that VdM would feature in our strongest 15. RP, Herbst definitely would. Ludik probably would. A fully fit Nick definitely would.

The real problem is that we need more than 4 NIQs, with the level of players other teams now have in Europe, and the high injury rate which is becoming the norm in rugby, there just aren't enough IQ players around.

Failing that perhaps we should be throwing silly money at those who are (e.g. Steenson), but then we are going to be throwing big money at back up players.
(Although I think Steenson would become our first choice ten if he was here, but its not going to happen!)

Our NIQs with the exception of Ruan are not world class. Johann was a world class leader and a very good player. Afoa was very good, for a year or so. Nick is a one trick pony who was rumbled. ludik is a good player who gives us options and is a good addition to our squad. Terblanche was world class, although by the time he came here he was past his best, but showed some real class at times. P3 was a very good hard as nails player who made the most of what he had. VdM is a good player.
Toulon only sign world class players, not the good or even very good brand.

I agree with Snipe on the issue of our NIQs, they just aren't world class. Truth be told, and in the cold light of day, they probably aren't international class and that's the biggest problem when signing NIQs. They should have to be box office, and for the avoidance of doubt I am not taking the pash out of the Colonel.

Herbst I have the most hope for as he is still quite young and shown good promise thus far.

VDM is a pretty good player who I think will benefit from having Touhy back beside him.

Ludik good player but in the scheme of things a complete waste of an NIQ contract. Obviously done due to Jared's foray into the midfield but by Christ has it left us short up front.

Williams should not have had his contract renewed. Terrible decision by Humphreys. I like Nick and he is a very nice guy but he's getting no younger and if anything is more injury prone and much easier to combat than in previous seasons.

I would also agree with Eggs that we simply have not 'thrown enough money' at our own local talent to keep them here, or even bring them back after a soujourn away.

Humphreys has to take a large amount of responsibility here, his treatment of squad players was derisory. His treatment of a rather versatile forward in particular was shameful. He offered crap deals to squad players knowing that chances are they'd take the deal to stay with Ulster rather than try their lot elsewhere. This had a two fold problem. Those that were good enough called his bluff and left-Whitten, Faloon, Farrell for example are carving out good careers for themselves. Those that didn't call his bluff were unambitious and well...not really good enough to get game time elsewhere. An honourable exception being Brady. Humphreys placed very little value in the 'squad'-he cared about the 1st choice 23/25 and to hell with he rest. No wonder we have fudge all SID really.

Regarding Steenson, he has his strengths and weaknesses but we wouldn't have lost in Llanelli with him at 10 IMO. Jackson has much potential but that isn't going to win us anything in the short term. Humphreys is just a bloody liability, Sunday reminded me just how frustrating a player he is to watch. Must be a nightmare for a coach.

The biggest thing for me is the coaching. To my mind we have the players, even the squad we fielded on Sunday was good enough to beat the Scarlets but to a man they are completely clueless.

I take no joy from it but Clarke is rapidly being found out as a fairly average, or even poor, forwards coach. The start of the season we had people singing his praises but he was living of Muller's influence on the pack and as time had wore on that influence has dissipated and we are back to being reamed by a fairly limited Llanelli pack.

It surprised me that Doak was named head coach but it surprised me more that Clarke remained in situ after that appointment. Clarke was a big mate of Humphreys whereas Doak, eh, wasn't.

I can't be bothered going into the jobs for the boys stuff again but I'll simply mention four names responsible for on pitch excellence. Doak, Bell, Clarke and Malone. You couldn't make it up. A professional coaching ticket for a club that wants to be 'world class' or whatever sound bite Logan used. Pass me the vomit bucket.

I said it before and I will say it again. The Toulon no-show highlighted exactly where we are. Leicester confirmed that by their result last week. Some here like to think of themselves as better than the Tigers in recent years and maybe up to this season I would agree. This year? No, we have regressed and the thought of the damage Salvi is going to do to our backrow minus Henry is not helping my festive spirit.

We are in serious danger of becoming also rans again. It won't stop me going to Ravenhill but it's not something I am looking forward to either. The new ravers is a soul-less enough place never mind what it would be like with two empty ends and a half full stand.

[Jackie Brown]

Clarke wasn't up to it in his first stint as assistant, he still isn't.

[Kofi Annan]

Got it, Bum,n Coke is really Mark Anscombe, and he must have me on ignore, feeling hurt and worthless.Buck hit the nail on the head, but as you know I would have thrown in the farcical character we have at the top.

[rumncoke]

Snipe Creative play is only possible when teams make mistakes and mistakes are created by PRESSURE based on field position .

For example many penalties are gained from the pressure applied within the 5 metre area such as line outs rucks etc

In professional rugby the game is based around defence and until you disrupt the defence and/or disrupt the defenders concentration breaks are few and far between and frequently the result of a rehearsed move . The thing about rehearsed moves is they only work once a game and sometimes only once a season because the opposition study teams set moves and thus look for the indicators such as the positions players take before executing the play .

With so many televised games how teams play and the moves they make is common knowledge ; its not like the AIL where teams are unknown quantities. Winning is based on hard graft and pressure to break the concentration of the opposition. The game is nearly as much mental as physical - brainfart rugby can lose you a match

[stu]

Snipe Creative play is only possible when teams make mistakes ...

What utter nonsense.

[Cornerfleg]

Stu ... please ....

Great Man Talking ....

[bazzaj]

Snipe
" in my book " is the belief that most coaches realise that the team who make the fewest mistakes will win . A mistake at pro 12 / SDC / International level is usually severely punished by either a try or a penalty .

Hence the elimination of risk is a priority .



Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Yes but rum if that is the sum of the parts then what?
No one sets out to deliberately to make mistakes but if that in itself is a coaching philosophy as opposed to say, `lets have a go` or `if its on its on`, then its the path to oblivion and I don`t want to watch it.
That sort of thinking has been just the problem with Ulster and Irish rugby over the years.

If you are coached to take risks from an early age then it should follow that you become comfortable in playing in that fashion and the learning becomes knowing when to take the risk.
As Joe Schmidt once said to a young Leinster lad who broke in the side following his taking a risk that didn`t come off, `It was the right thing to do but at the wrong time`.
In the Ulster set up one can`t help thinking they would have said to the youngster,` You shoulda wellied that.`

[Cornerfleg]

Exactly Baz.

Joe might be a low risk coach on paper, but he has his players drilled to do the common uncommonly well ... look at Leinster's execution under the new boy.

If you cant kick 40 meters and have a 4 second hang time - you're out. You'd need a tape measure and a calendar to time some of our kicking at the minute.

[Dan Dare]

Creative play mostly depends on players with skills and creative minds to see and execute. Also coaching and team philosophy on how the game will be played.

[Cornerfleg]

.... and not asking your players to constantly do things they can't competently do!!!