Lions Tour of NZ 2017

[Spiffsson]

Where did that come from?
Are you getting me confused with someone else as I haven't even commented on Farrells performance in Dublin.
Keep taking the pills.

Woops - sorry there bazz. That was sham's post I was on about, contained in response from you. Mea culpa !

[bazzaj]

Where did that come from?
Are you getting me confused with someone else as I haven't even commented on Farrells performance in Dublin.
Keep taking the pills.

Woops - sorry there bazz. That was sham's post I was on about, contained in response from you. Mea culpa !

No worries spiffers you had me going there for a minute.

[bazzaj]

5 "experts" in the guardian picked their test starters.
Mako V, Furlong, Sexton and Farrell featured in all 5 selects.
Daly, Joseph, Murray Stander and Itoje featured in 4.

Think that's about right barring injury with the other 6 positions to play for.

With only a few games until the first test Gatland will need to know the basis of his first team before a game is played as he will have limited time to bed them in.

This avoids the scenario under Woodward last time out there when he went into the first test without the side previously playing together which ended with inevitable disaster.

[rumncoke]

I can't see Gartland taking Rory as captain there is a degree of history which might make things difficult to much to forgive and forget in my book.

As an outside bet I might go for Murray as Captain . most of the Welsh possibles face selection problems to many contenders for second row and back row selection for any to be Captain which basically leaves the choice between ( Murray Sexton and Farrell and the later two have personalty ? marks in my book i.e. you either love them or hate them.

[Snipe Watson]

I can't see Gartland taking Rory as captain there is a degree of history which might make things difficult to much to forgive and forget in my book.

As an outside bet I might go for Murray as Captain . most of the Welsh possibles face selection problems to many contenders for second row and back row selection for any to be Captain which basically leaves the choice between ( Murray Sexton and Farrell and the later two have personalty ? marks in my book i.e. you either love them or hate them.

The Captain will be either Warburton or Wyn Jones. Probably the latter.
I'd pick:
McGrath
George
Furlong
Wyn Jones
Launchbury
Itoje
Tipuric
Stander
Murray
Sexton
North
Farrell
Henshaw
Watson
Payne

Owens
Vunipola
Cole
Henderson
Warburton
Joseph
Hogg
Webb

[BaggyTrousers]

I think you will probably be right Snipe, interesting though that Warburton gave it up with Wales without a struggle & AWJ led Wales to a fine 5th place, hardly a great recommendation.

Mind you, that said, I have an absence of fuc'ks to give.

[rumncoke]

Neither Warburton or Jones are guaranteed a place in my book .

The most competitive places in the pack will be second row and back row .

The Captain has be guarantee starter on merit not because he tour Captain .

admittedly the Captain of the Lions has frequently been a second row but in most occasions they have been an obvious first name on the sheet I just don't see either in that light .

a look at the squads listed how many have Warburton listed first or even listed in the back row and when thinking of second rows Jones may be included but I think most put first because he is listed as AJW the initial letter makes the selection .



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[bazzaj]

Problem is we can list as many squads as we like but it is clear as crystal that Gatland wanted Jones with his switch to Welsh captain this season.
You can see his logic.
Good player abrasive experienced who knows Gatland methods and has captained the Lions before.
Only problem is he is about the 5 ranked second row right now not including Kruis.

Just heard Eddie Jones has recommended 4 captains from each of the home nations.
Not sure about that.

Selection of Jones isn't a bad thing but I think Best is the man.
We are playing New Zealand and only in New Zealand not some lame duck of an Aussie team and Best and the Irish team with a sprinkling of English are the only players with the experience of beating them.
That is a massive psychological barrier overcome.

The majority of Welsh and Scots have proved they can't handle playing away from the security of their own back yards.
Why would you take them?

Rory knows what it takes why on earth would you not tap into that knowledge?

It's not as if there is a disparity of form hooker wise like there is with second row.
Bit of a no brainer for me.

POM would also make a great midweek captain.
Please don't suggest that this is a devalued demeaning role.
Successful Lions tours have proved that the form of the midweek side is vital to that.
A proud Munster man is just the type to drive that and gel the squad and take pride in that role.
In my view it's as important a role as the actual overall captain.

[BaggyTrousers]

Jizzbeg I understand your logic but then you have to overcome the fact that Gatland didn't even pick Rory for the party last time and Rory struggled when he replaced Hartley.

Like Snipe I think Gatland will select a Welsh captain, he is as wedded to his Welsh players as Schmidt has been to Mexicans.

[BaggyTrousers]

So, Hartley then.

[Russ]

One can only assume that Gatland has promised AWJ a test jersey and the only way to get him that test jersey is to make him captain

He certainly isnt there on form

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[rumncoke]

While Gartland is his own man I don't think he would want to start out against the Abs with much of the press at his throat which could happen if he picked Harley or Jones the one name I omitted was PoM which might have been a mistake.

A couple of years ago I would have not even considered him for Captain of Ireland never mind the Lions but he appears to be more in control of himself now and is a born motivator. Best has had to learn what comes naturally to PoM but as i have said I can't see the relationship between Gartland and Best being totally positive and have never really considered Best as an option.

AWJ might have been one of the joint favourites before the 6Ns, but his form during the 6Ns has not been great and the number of automatic English players in the party has reduced during the 6ns, thus the need for a west England Captain has also reduced ,the tour Party if based on form during the 6Ns would be a more mixed party than that envisaged at the end of January.

[UlsterAreBrill]

One can only assume that Gatland has promised AWJ a test jersey and the only way to get him that test jersey is to make him captain

He certainly isnt there on form

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Yeah AWJ doesn't tour for me either. Locks another tough selection

Think the only nailed on positions so far, if all fit, are Furlong, Billy V and Sexton - rest are all 50/50 calls IMO. WIlliams and Seymour on the wings are almost guarenteed (or should be) selections as well, but wouldn't be surprised if they aren't selected

[big mervyn]

Good odds available on anyone other than Warburton. He's 6/4 on. Farrell is 4/1 AWJ 9/1

[ruckover]

Warburton proved during the 6N that he can only perform well when he doesn't have the pressure of leadership. He should tour, but not as captain.