Aironi v Ulster

[Dave]

Not getting the BP was slightly annoying as two weeks in a row we have been in the position of having three tries with time for a fourth but are unsuccessfull in making it happen. I personally don't think it is a major flaw in the team as such. I think it might in some instances come down to individuals in key roles getting it wrong or making unforced errors at crucial times.


Dave, sorry but have to point out that those individuals you say are making errors are part of the team and as such I do think it is a major flaw. Indeed it has been for a few seasons now. We seem to panic when we get into the red zone and rarely do we come away with a try after sustained pressure. We might get a penalty but usually we balls it up and knock it on.

In an earlier thread we all stated what would be a good season for Ulster and many stated that getting more bonus points would be key to securing a top 2 place. Those people are now saying that 2 wins from 2 is good and not to worry about missing two BPs against Glasgow (well beaten) and Aironi (other top sides will get BPs against them).

I hope these two dropped points don't come back to haunt us next May.

Totally understand your point LTHG, and as I pointed out I was annoyed we didn't get the BP. I would also like to clarify that by team flaw, I meant that 1-15 we hadn't players who weren't up to the task which I don't think is the case, nor I'm sure do you. I know that Marshall, for example, is part of the team but he also is an individual who can be replaced. As scrum half is so important I don't think our backs will get significantly better ball until RP returns which will ultimately impede to our ability to convert territory into tries. Thats the bottom line I'm afraid.

I think with all the signings and developing squad players our expectations have changed a lot, but we have to bare in mind the limitations of the depth of the squad. If the WC was this time last year we would have much different expectations and would be delighted with 2 wins and 6 tries. We had no idea how Paddy Mac, Gilroy, D'arcy, Spence etc. would perform and NOC was our first choice 10. Ihumph's kicking only became consistent later on after RP had a few mares with the boot. This season in order to finish higher in the RD Pro 12 we have to be able to get better results against Munster and Leinster as well as improve our BP winning ratio. I hope at this stage of the season we can build a platform that can be used to challenge for silverware from post-RWC.

[lovesthehardground]

Not sure I understand what you're saying here. Is Marshall to blame for not getting BPs in our last two games? When RP comes back our forwards will be able to maul over the line for tries? Is it wrong to have bigger expectations of the team given that they have a year's more experience? In 4 weeks time, post RWC, we'll be ok because we'll only be 6 points behind Cardiff who will also be getting players back. The same as every other team in the league?

No, Dave. Problem is that we have failed to take two BPs that were there for the taking. Nothing to do with squad size, RWC, or anything else. We need to address the problem of putting teams away when the opportunity presents itself. At present we don't seem to be able to do it.

[rumncoke]

My point was that try bonus points are harder to get than losing points provided your defence is sound and you don't have a dose of the head f--ts in the last minute,

Last year we gave try bonus points away in both matches against Munster due head f--ts and failed to obtain losing bonus points in those games.

The problem for the spectator is that he can see opportunities high in the stand which are not apparent to the player on the ground.

[Rooster]

In 4 weeks time, post RWC, we'll be ok because we'll only be 6 points behind Cardiff who will also be getting players back.

Like to think we would be 2 or 3 points ahead of them after Friday evening

[Dave]

LTHG, to answer your questions:

Is Marshall to blame for not getting BPs in our last two games? Not what I'm saying, but without quality service our trying scoring ratio will be impeded, and I stand over that statement.

When RP comes back our forwards will be able to maul over the line for tries? Well with a fully fit Ferris, we didn't have for most of last year, Muller, Afoa, Best etc. might help.

Is it wrong to have bigger expectations of the team given that they have a year's more experience? Maybe but bare in mind the limitations of the squad too.

In 4 weeks time, post RWC, we'll be ok because we'll only be 6 points behind Cardiff who will also be getting players back. The same as every other team in the league? Is this even a question?

To put in simple terms what I'm saying:

Our squad has limitations in key areas that may impair our momentum during games hampering try scoring opportunities. Regardless of the WC we have a good team to put out, the performances could be better and they could be a lot worse. I'm not telling you what to expect, but I personally can be still satisfied with 2 wins from 2, if not a little annoyed at being so close to a BP. If you don't agree with me thats fine. I just don't see the point in catastrophising the situation as a result of not getting the BP. Having said that I'm a little nervous for Friday!!!

[BaggyTrousers]

Hardyin, where are you getting these precise points totals weeks in advance? Is there a parralel universe that you have access to where the future is a known quanity, if so it will take a lot away from watching games - something akin to watching a recording of the game knowing the score.

If you do occupy such places at least have the decency not to flag up actual scores.

Now, I could well be one of those to whom you refer to from a previous thread albeit I think I recall saying that progress would be winning games without the stress of so many last ditch efforts rather than pinning all on bonus points. With that as my benchmark and looking back at our long history fernenst the Glasgie Weegies, we did indeed improve on previous encounters most of which have been ragged affairs with the normal result being a win or loss by less than a full score.

I very much take Dave's point regarding personnel & particularly St Ruan of Pienaar. Whilst iHumph was said to have been excellent on Saturday it can't possibly have escaped anyone's notice how much better he is with the extra split second to a second proved by St.Ruan putting the ball in front of him at the optimum height & no worries about the ball going over his head, behind him or at his bootlaces.

That said, I fully agree with you about Ulster and white line fever over the last few seasons & it is a fact that we do tend to score quite a proportion from movements from longer range. I would love to see much more patience when we are in the enemy 22 and faith in the pack to beat away at the opposition until a genuine opportunity has been created. Too often we get frustrated and go for something improbable, resulting in a dumb kick, knock on or some other bit-up.

I would love to see much more determination to leave their 22 with points every time. If the defence is good then if that means earning a pen or working a position for a drop & 3 points that will do me. Hate to be a smart-ass but that is exactly what the ABs do, they take points when they are on offer and build a lead. It just so happens with their skill levels they are better than the rest at opening opportunities for tries but they will take points more often than not.

Of course the other thing about taking points when the are on offer is that it will almost always keep you in the game and make losing points points more easy to come by. The one proviso with the taking points routine is that when you are 7 points up on dross like the Weegies with little time left & a penalty you can easily stick into the 5 metre line - DON'T TAKE THE FECKING POINTS. 10 days later that is still boiling my pish.

[lovesthehardground]

Baggy

If you saw how poor I am at various prediction competitions I've entered over the years you would know that I have no access to any parralel universe. Although for a small fee I might be persuaded to let you know Saturdays' winning lottery numbers!!No, I was using a bit of poetic license in stating that Cardiff would be 6 points ahead in 4 weeks time.

My point is that no matter who the opposition is or what strength either they or Ulster have in the squad, whenever during any game there is the opportunity of grabbing a winning BP then we should take it. Unfortunately we are not good at this and as much as I agree with your point about previous encounters against Glasgow, the fact is the other night we had them well beaten but still didn't get a 5th point. Those who are trying to play this deficiency down with excuses ranging from the RWCto refs to temperature to.....whatever else, are simply ignoring the fact that we need to improve in scoring tries.

[BaggyTrousers]

.....whatever else, are simply ignoring the fact that we need to improve in scoring tries.

Quite so my friend but just maybe you are making that sound a tad easier than it is - maybe not I agree 100% that we can be very very wasteful in the enemy 22 & have history of when we have a boot on their neck not stamping down hard enough.

"Ruthless" doesn't appear in the Ulster Rugby lexicon.

I would bet any man alive that having stuffed Cyardiff 2 times last year with BPs that we don't get one on Friday or could it be that they are our "bunnies"? Weather supposed to be wet.

[Cornerfleg]

May I just briefly interject here ... thank you ... won't take up too much time ... just want to say mega kudos to Monsieur Bouffant Pantalons ... "fernenst the Glasgie Weegies" Not may mortals can pull off a fernenst in broad daylight these days!

[Rooster]

Time we moved on to the next match, I'm sure the team have

[Cornerfleg]

Wise words Rooster ... when is the squad plus Ethel announced?

Anyone heard any rumours or muted barks form the dogs as to whether Mr Windee has settled well or is looking promising in training?

[BaggyTrousers]

May I just briefly interject here ... thank you ... won't take up too much time ... just want to say mega kudos to Monsieur Bouffant Pantalons ... "fernenst the Glasgie Weegies" Not may mortals can pull off a fernenst in broad daylight these days!

Very gratifying Fleg, had hoped that casting that particular pearl amongst some of the swine hereabouts wouldn't be entirely wasted. Knew a lassie, charming biggish but tremendously proportioned country girl who came from somewhere near Arboe. Not the metropolis itself you understand but fernenst it.

Boys oh but I'd love to be tightening her garters. Mind you it was 35 years ago god knows what state her limbs are in by now