Who will decide

[Russ]

...but one would assume it would cover Conor Murray, except that he's currently too important.

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Have you seen Joey Carberry?

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[Russ]

Deloitte will have a say too
Can't have a big pay off if the accountants don't agree

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[Deraless]

...but one would assume it would cover Conor Murray, except that he's currently too important.

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Have you seen Joey Carberry?

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And Ian Keatley apparently (rolls eyes). True story but they can at least pray Sexton holds together. Without Murray...

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[Snipe Watson]

...but one would assume it would cover Conor Murray, except that he's currently too important.

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That's why I said previous disciplinary outcomes would be significant.

[TopPoster]

Wonder if Nucifora has input as if he’s responsible for ensuring all provinces have the player resource to make them competitive then he should be saying PJ and SO are essential to turning round Ulsters sh!tv state. Obviously Murray was to Munster and Ireland hence was left untouched.

[Snipe Watson]

Wonder if Nucifora has input as if he’s responsible for ensuring all provinces have the player resource to make them competitive then he should be saying PJ and SO are essential to turning round Ulsters sh!tv state. Obviously Murray was to Munster and Ireland hence was left untouched.

I don't think the importance of the players will come into it. It'll be objectively based on the documents.

[jean valjean]

Wonder if Nucifora has input as if he’s responsible for ensuring all provinces have the player resource to make them competitive then he should be saying PJ and SO are essential to turning round Ulsters sh!tv state. Obviously Murray was to Munster and Ireland hence was left untouched.

I don't think the importance of the players will come into it. It'll be objectively based on the documents.

There are some documents still flying around the interweb that may be making some present internationals a little uneasy. A couple of seconds searching soon finds some interesting findings.

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[Dave]

Dave,
You are correct that this is now about the future of two young sportsmen but sadly I can see no final outcome other than the Union saying "game was brought into disrepute...blah blah ... refer you to policy number 43 in our employees handbook blah blah blah.... we listened to you before making our minds up.....".
Vodafone and the rest will have a quiet word in the ears of the blazers. In fact, they probably already have done so.
Olding handled the post trial stuff very well but I don't believe it will save his career on this island.

The best they can hope for in my modest opinion is that the IRFU let them back in 2019, having purged themselves in some other jurisdiction. That's just the reality of the business of sport. I have nothing more to say but to wish them well.

I like to know which offence they would even charge them with. Potentially indecency in the wassap exchange. Perhaps this is why SO was quicker to apologise. PJ said nothing of substance in the chat.

[BaggyTrousers]

I haven't said anything on these topics before.
The jury made the correct and only proper decision but that doesn't mean that there isn't a legitimate problem for Ulster rugby and the Rugby Union in allowing their employees resume playing.
I would love to see the two boys back in an Ulster shirt but my feeling is that it's not just tenable, at least in the short term.
Perhaps a year farmed out to Kiss and Kidney at London Irish might be the best move? A return to Belfast could then be considered but the heat has to die down first.
At the end of the day, pro rugby is a business and the blazers will not want to get on the wrong side of public opinion.Too much public money, north and south, comes to rugby to be ignored these days. Right now, women in general but younger women in particular are not going to accept full restoration to duties for the lads.
I say all this as a man who had to zip his lips from early in the trial as my wife and daughter considered me a disgusting apologist for misogyny.

D4, I understand your position, I had similar issues at home which became heated at times, though of course, being a pretty thran sort of a boy, I refused to be silenced never mind cowed in the face of feminine outrage.

However that bit about farming them out for a year causes me a problem. I heard the same from a man I shall refer to as "Kevin from Cork" for the good and sufficient reason that he was from Cork and called Kevin.

So D4, I'll give you the same advice I gave "Kevin from Cork" who is a very decent man:

- what part of NOT GUILTY do the denizens of the Republic of Ireland not understand? Is there a wildly different interpretation of the definition here, where it means you walk into court presumed innocent and that verdict mean you walk out confirmed innocent

- assuming that NOT GUILTY in ROI actually indicates the same there as here, why in the name of blue fu'ck should people innocent of any crime be forced to give up their livelihood or emigrate.

- more trifling matters occur such as, when did any major sports organisation allow social media noise to decide player contracts and availability, sure FFFS some here have been calling for months for Darren Cave to get game time, Andrew Trimble getting game time, but do the FIRFUCs in Ulster listen?

- When did screaming harridans without the slightest interest in rugby become important in the thinking of the IRFU? When did some Gaelic speaker in West Belfast who has never posted on any rugby matter in his entire tweeting existence become an important opinion former in D4?

- When did Irish Rugby lose it's backbone, or is it just because it's the feckin' Nordies, who cares about them?

- When did the women of Ireland decide what is and isn't tenable, be they wrinkled ould grans or impressionable teens, for I take it you aren't suggesting the primary school children of Leinster, Munster & Connacht need to be protected from two rugby players who have never committed a crime in their lives?

- I'll point out the incredible hypocrisy of your position. Do you remember these words:

"A woman has made malicious and unfounded allegations against me. I have been devastated by these damaging and false claims.

"I am moving swiftly and decisively to vindicate my reputation, and I am completely confident that my name will be cleared," he added.

Guess who made them? Stu Olding? Paddy Jackson? No, it was Isaac Boss and here is another thing, he was not clear in the courtroom, no jury ever acquitted him, instead, the case fell on lack of evidence, yet in this case there was not a shred of sustainable evidence, there was unusually for a rape case an eye-witness who was actually a woman and saw no evidence of rape. Why did the PPS decide to prosecute when this testimony alone entirely settled the trial. We have known for several weeks that they were not guilty.

Did Isaac Boss face expulsion from Ulster? No, and rightly so. Did it prevent Leinster from signing him and him playing 6 seasons as a feckin' Mexican? No of course not.

So tell me D4, is it just the chance to stuff it up the Nordies now that makes clowns like yourself and poor decent but demented Kevin come out with your bullshite? Remember Boss was not acquitted, there just wasn't sufficient evidence, he remains a man with an accusation that was not tested, how much more important that in Olding & Jackson's situation, their case was tested and the evidence demanded acquittal, not guilty, no crime.

Isaac Boss has never had his good character returned to him unblemished by a jury of his peers, the four young gentlemen have, they have done nothing whatsoever wrong and I'd ask you to keep in mind that their pathetic opinions, which are as likely to be young men bullshitting as genuinely held opinions, were on a private and closed WhatsApp forum, they should never have seen the light of day had the PSNI & PPS not made fools of themselves and ignored the one genuine piece of evidence that a law student would have jumped on - an eye-witness who said rape did not occur, who decided the case by the simple means of tell the truth.

I'll tell you this D4, maybe you should grow a set of balls and ask your wife why she believes one woman with plenty to lose in terms of reputation over another woman with no dog in the fight who said there was no rape? Once you have done that big step back to manliness you might spend some time out on the streets of Dublin with the believers and ask them why they don't believe the sworn evidence of Dara Florence who had absolutely no reason to say anything but the truth.

Jog on pal.

[Dave]

There are two Ulster players who had drink driving charges. They clearly didn't break any contractual stipulations relating to conduct. At least for UR. FIFRFU may have a lower threshold. Especially for a pair of nordi bastids.

[BaggyTrousers]

There are two Ulster players who had drink driving charges. They clearly didn't break any contractual stipulations relating to conduct. At least for UR. FIFRFU may have a lower threshold. Especially for a pair of nordi bastids.

Wonder will they look different should Nordi Murphy have any small indiscretions.

I heard that Marcell is fit and well, was just suspended for the season for his disgraceful failure as a role model in being a serial offender in the SSPSNI's speed traps.

[Snipe Watson]

Dave,
You are correct that this is now about the future of two young sportsmen but sadly I can see no final outcome other than the Union saying "game was brought into disrepute...blah blah ... refer you to policy number 43 in our employees handbook blah blah blah.... we listened to you before making our minds up.....".
Vodafone and the rest will have a quiet word in the ears of the blazers. In fact, they probably already have done so.
Olding handled the post trial stuff very well but I don't believe it will save his career on this island.

The best they can hope for in my modest opinion is that the IRFU let them back in 2019, having purged themselves in some other jurisdiction. That's just the reality of the business of sport. I have nothing more to say but to wish them well.

I like to know which offence they would even charge them with. Potentially indecency in the wassap exchange. Perhaps this is why SO was quicker to apologise. PJ said nothing of substance in the chat.

An experienced HR professional who has had access to their: contract, code of conduct and disciplinary procedure may be able to predict what they could be charged with. Also helpful as secondary sources would be evidence of any other actions taken or not taken under the auspices of those same documents in similar circumstances. As for the rest of us, not a baldy notion. It would be pure speculation based on guesswork.
There is zero chance of a dodgy dismissal being slipped past McVeigh and Winters and I mean zero. Starting with the verdicts handed down as well as the manner and speed with which they were handed down means that Paddy and Stu have a very strong hand before sitting down.
I only see two options other than reinstatement. Either they are justifiably dismissed, or their contracts are bought out by the IRFU for a large wad of cash with a "mutual consent" announcement.
Paddy and Stu want to clear their names. If they agree to leave by mutual consent, it's going to cost the IRFU, because anything other than reinstatement will be viewed as a partial admission of wrongdoing and justification for the protestors. If the IRFU want them to take one for the team, they'd better get the cheque book out.

[Russ]

I refer D4 to the case of David Poff. A Leinster rugby player CONVICTED of sexual assault

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[stickinout]

Wonder if Nucifora has input as if he’s responsible for ensuring all provinces have the player resource to make them competitive then he should be saying PJ and SO are essential to turning round Ulsters sh!tv state. Obviously Murray was to Munster and Ireland hence was left untouched.

I don't think the importance of the players will come into it. It'll be objectively based on the documents and as how the IRFU sees fit to interpret aforesaid documents! You know what lawyers and their likes are like Snipe, some of them could argue black is white..

[Snipe Watson]

There are two Ulster players who had drink driving charges. They clearly didn't break any contractual stipulations relating to conduct. At least for UR. FIFRFU may have a lower threshold. Especially for a pair of nordi bastids.

Other players who have committed indiscretions in the past may have been disciplined. Nobody would ever know as such things are confidential.
Hypothetically his case could be different. If for example they were issued with a first written warning, as part of the final agreement they could waive anonymity and there could be an announcement that they have been disciplined and warned about their future online behaviour.