The UAFC

Snipe Watson wrote:Jared was viewed by Schmidt as a crucial part of his defensive system.
I feel he is part of the Schmidtisation of Ulster and you are going to see Ulster play similar patterns to Ireland in defence particularly. the gospel according to Joe and Andy.

Given where we are right now, I'd bite your arm off for that.

Snipe Watson wrote:

shamalicious wrote:Plus the fact that he's being brought in to shadow the Ireland coaching team is a sign they see potential in him, possibly with a view to have him involved when Farrell goes.

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Jared was viewed by Schmidt as a crucial part of his defensive system.
I feel he is part of the Schmidtisation of Ulster and you are going to see Ulster play similar patterns to Ireland in defence particularly. the gospel according to Joe and Andy.

Whether I like it or not for various reasons I do not see this as being a bad thing.

You can never be sure until a guy is in situ but from my faraway perch I'd see this as a positive. A pity that his injuries have forced the end of his playing career but at least he now gets another chance to keep contributing.

Snipe Watson wrote:

Kofi Annan wrote:I think it’s a poor decision . Really any type of coach should go somewhere away from their team and cut their teeth, trust themselves and go develop , I don’t get this “he is a brill defence coach “ bit at all.

I am prepared to be wrong on this, but I don’t think I am.

So what’s Malones new title, was he not Defensive Coach, Skills Coach, Analyst and chief coffee maker.

We are just doing the same all over again.

I'd agree with this. Filling in as defence coach for a few months when still technically a player is not the same as taking the post full time. It could be said that he was doing a few months as an intern and it went really well so the powers that be know what they're getting. It is taking a big chance, he's no Ruan Pienaar after all.
The flip side of that is that Mark McCall was great as Solly's assistant fresh from retiring as a player. His problems only emerged when he became head coach and the different relationship needed did not work. It could work and I really hope it does.

I don't often get the chance to disagree with you two on the same topic , so I'm grasping the opportunity with both hands.

I am prepared to believe the evidence of my own eyes, I saw a defence that was just the very epitome of a fu'cking jokeshop, with record highs for tries conceded in successive seasons. Exit, Kiss, enter Girrid, and being as gay as the next man, who wouldn't, and lo and behold, slowly at first but surely the defence grew a set of balls.

I have sometimes questioned whether Girrid could be arsed turning out for Ulster when there were Ireland caps around the corner, but he was a smart player, pretty good judgement in all aspects, so I'm more than happy. He'll do a good job.

shamalicious wrote:I'm happy with this. He is incredibly well spoken of by players in the Ulster and Ireland set-ups for his influence and leadership. I have faith.

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also importantly his input as de facto defence coach for the last half of last season was well spoken of by the Ulster players.. I know Ulster haven’t got a great history with jobs for the boys appointments, but this is one I’d be willing to go along with - might just be inspired..

None of you agreed with me on Logan, so I will stick by this one as well.

Some one cited what a great job Cullen did with Leinster , sure it was be sacked or take help, he took the help and is still getting it with Lancaster there.

So coaching ticket next year

Head Coach with no Head Coach experience
Scrum coach who was that good Jackman got shot off
Backs Coach , enough said
Skills Coaach , Malone at the moment says a lot

I hear that Davison was not considered for the job as he had no Head Coach experience !!!

I will stand by my opinion.

If Joe thinks he is good enough then thats good enough for me... it was him that recommended Kiss as a defensive genius..

In my opinion the glue that held the rookie Leinster coaching ticket together was Lancaster.. we have no such mentor for our new kids on the block and for the record I think we need one.. .

Cockatrice wrote:If Joe thinks he is good enough then thats good enough for me... it was him that recommended Kiss as a defensive genius..

In my opinion the glue that held the rookie Leinster coaching ticket together was Lancaster.. we have no such mentor for our new kids on the block and for the record I think we need one.. .

Kiss was a good defence coach and when he came here was virtually unanimously welcomed, but he wasn't the right man for the head job in an Ulster setup that eating itself from the inside.
Lancaster saved Plug's bacon.
Willie Anderson is the house parent for the youngfellas.

Cockatrice wrote:If Joe thinks he is good enough then thats good enough for me... it was him that recommended Kiss as a defensive genius..

In my opinion the glue that held the rookie Leinster coaching ticket together was Lancaster.. we have no such mentor for our new kids on the block and for the record I think we need one.. .

did joe not recommend Kiss to Ulster because he was fed up with him and wanted shot of him??

I agree that Lancaster was a game changer at Leinster - but McFarland is a lot more experienced than Cullen was, and I’ve only heard good about him. I think the truth is any coach appointment is a bit of a roll of the dice - particularly when he’s coming into a tricky gig like Ulster - so there are no guarantees, but I think that the announcements so far are steps in the right direction..

Lurgan Lad wrote:

stickinout wrote:Has there been an official statement from UR or the FIRFU to inform us that Payne has retired? Did i miss that one?

https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/rugby-union/44279099

Thanks

UlsterNo9 wrote:

Lurgan Lad wrote:

stickinout wrote:Has there been an official statement from UR or the FIRFU to inform us that Payne has retired? Did i miss that one?

https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/rugby-union/44279099

http://ulsterrugby.com/news/17354.php#.Wwv6cSAh2Uk

Columbo wrote:

shamalicious wrote:I'm happy with this. He is incredibly well spoken of by players in the Ulster and Ireland set-ups for his influence and leadership. I have faith.

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also importantly his input as de facto defence coach for the last half of last season was well spoken of by the Ulster players.. I know Ulster haven’t got a great history with jobs for the boys appointments, but this is one I’d be willing to go along with - might just be inspired..

Allow me to put a big fu'ck off nine inch nail through that. Jobs for retired/ex-players are not simply an Ulster phenomenon, it is as common as can be, indeed I'd say without fear of contradiction that most coaches who were good/outstanding players have got their coaching breaks at former clubs. It's as true in Lionelland as it is in Ireland as it is in NZ or SA.

The received wisdom here is that it is something uniquely Ulsterish & wrong. I'm calling bullshite on that - like me, it's commoner than muck.

Speaking of nine inch nails : Head like a hole, black as your soul, I'd rather die than give you control

Agreed - jobs for the boys happens everywhere, and is just one of the ways that the values and traditions of clubs are maintained and retained. We like to think we have special traditions here in Ulster and that we want our players to 'know what it means to pull on the white shirt', well our players haven't been learning that by weekly trips to the Nevin Spence centre, and they need it drummed into them by guys who do know what it means. That is what Willie is doing with the Academy by all accounts.

In fact if you look at the clubs who give jobs for the boys, they are the clubs with the stronger sense of identity, the proudest traditions, that they want to retain. In many ways we should want to foster that type of environment. Especially post Slogan where all that is good about Ulster has been sanitised and presented back to us in a form unrecognisable from its initial state.

Payne is slightly different, he's not a born and bred Ulsterman and he's not an Ulster traditions type of preacher - he hasn't been selected as a coach for the reasons Axel might have been selected by Munster or Dean Richards/Richard Cockerill might have been selected by Leicester. Payne has been singled out by Joe Schmidt who has always been an admirer of the way Payne organised a defence playing in the line at 13. Joe is no slouch and he was willing to sacrifice Jared's attacking brilliance at FB for his defensive methods at centre - something we as fans found difficult to reconcile.

So make no mistake this is not an appointment made by an emotional club management having lost a stalwart player who espouses the very being of Ulster, this is an appointment by Joe based on Payne's rugby intellect. I like that he will get an Ireland tour in a shadow role and that will stand him in good stead.

Also I hope that the powers that be have planned this properly and that there is a strategic plan for the coaching setup in Ulster so that Kofi's well made reservations are not true. We have been told there are more appointments and I believe there is a very great space available for a Lancaster/Rassie type of position. I also however believe that he may need to sit at Bryn's desk and therein lies the conundrum as Bryn is one of those club stalwarts who help to maintain the traditions of the club.

Tim Boys must be waiting by the phone

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ColinM wrote:Agreed - jobs for the boys happens everywhere, and is just one of the ways that the values and traditions of clubs are maintained and retained. We like to think we have special traditions here in Ulster and that we want our players to 'know what it means to pull on the white shirt', well our players haven't been learning that by weekly trips to the Nevin Spence centre, and they need it drummed into them by guys who do know what it means. That is what Willie is doing with the Academy by all accounts.

In fact if you look at the clubs who give jobs for the boys, they are the clubs with the stronger sense of identity, the proudest traditions, that they want to retain. In many ways we should want to foster that type of environment. Especially post Slogan where all that is good about Ulster has been sanitised and presented back to us in a form unrecognisable from its initial state.

Payne is slightly different, he's not a born and bred Ulsterman and he's not an Ulster traditions type of preacher - he hasn't been selected as a coach for the reasons Axel might have been selected by Munster or Dean Richards/Richard Cockerill might have been selected by Leicester. Payne has been singled out by Joe Schmidt who has always been an admirer of the way Payne organised a defence playing in the line at 13. Joe is no slouch and he was willing to sacrifice Jared's attacking brilliance at FB for his defensive methods at centre - something we as fans found difficult to reconcile.

So make no mistake this is not an appointment made by an emotional club management having lost a stalwart player who espouses the very being of Ulster, this is an appointment by Joe based on Payne's rugby intellect. I like that he will get an Ireland tour in a shadow role and that will stand him in good stead.

Also I hope that the powers that be have planned this properly and that there is a strategic plan for the coaching setup in Ulster so that Kofi's well made reservations are not true. We have been told there are more appointments and I believe there is a very great space available for a Lancaster/Rassie type of position. I also however believe that he may need to sit at Bryn's desk and therein lies the conundrum as Bryn is one of those club stalwarts who help to maintain the traditions of the club.

Good post

I think the fact he is being brought on the tour as a coach says it all, there's no point bringing someone who may or may not be good, Joe clearly sees him as someone worth investing in

As a coach you got to start somewhere, i'm glad he's starting here