promsandwich wrote:Always had my suspicions that the 'Leinster get want they want' line was something to do with a big chip on our shoulders about how badly Kiss was doing, Ruan having to leave and the general downward spiral at Ulster. However today I learnt a few things:
1. Jantjies had agreed to come but was blocked by IRFU.
2. UR were also in talks with two other tens - blocked by IRFU.
3. Ruan had agreed to come back to be back up 10, or play 15, or anywhere else but 9 ( except in case of emergencies ) - blocked by IRFU.
4. Leinster are allowed to sign Joe Tomane - an overseas player who is:
(a) Not top class;
(b) Clearly going to block the path of a number of talented players at Leinster;
(c) 'Replacing' Nacewa who it must be remembered was allowed to leave and come back to play in positions when he was clearly blocking the path of a number of young IQ players and had already exceeded the time permitted to stay for overseas players.
Added to this must be the fact that Fardy was signed as a 2nd row, apparently, and played mostly in the back row for the ladies.
The obvious conclusions from above are as follows:
1. The IRFU are a shower of cnuts.
2. The IRFU do not apply their 'rules' about overseas players to the ladies.
3. The IRFU don't give a fcuk about Ulster.
4. We will have to survive on with the kids we have coming through.
5. I am happy with 4. above.
Also forget about Gibson-Park and Lowe
Samich, I have been saying things along those lines for some time. A few gowls gurn about me gurning about Leinster's preferential treatment from the FIRFU as if it is a myth.
As you have discovered it is no myth, it's a straightforward fact.
NEVER MOVE ON. Years on, I cannot ever watch Ireland with anything but indifference, I continue to wish for the imminent death of Donal Spring, the FIRFUC's executioner of Wee Paddy & Wee Stu, and I hate the FIRFUCs with undiminished passion.
promsandwich wrote:Always had my suspicions that the 'Leinster get want they want' line was something to do with a big chip on our shoulders about how badly Kiss was doing, Ruan having to leave and the general downward spiral at Ulster. However today I learnt a few things:
1. Jantjies had agreed to come but was blocked by IRFU.
2. UR were also in talks with two other tens - blocked by IRFU.
3. Ruan had agreed to come back to be back up 10, or play 15, or anywhere else but 9 ( except in case of emergencies ) - blocked by IRFU.
4. Leinster are allowed to sign Joe Tomane - an overseas player who is:
(a) Not top class;
(b) Clearly going to block the path of a number of talented players at Leinster;
(c) 'Replacing' Nacewa who it must be remembered was allowed to leave and come back to play in positions when he was clearly blocking the path of a number of young IQ players and had already exceeded the time permitted to stay for overseas players.
Added to this must be the fact that Fardy was signed as a 2nd row, apparently, and played mostly in the back row for the ladies.
The obvious conclusions from above are as follows:
1. The IRFU are a shower of cnuts.
2. The IRFU do not apply their 'rules' about overseas players to the ladies.
3. The IRFU don't give a fcuk about Ulster.
4. We will have to survive on with the kids we have coming through.
5. I am happy with 4. above.
Also forget about Gibson-Park and Lowe
Samich, I have been saying things along those lines for some time. A few gowls gurn about me gurning about Leinster's preferential treatment from the FIRFU as if it is a myth.
As you have discovered it is no myth, it's a straightforward fact.
Yes Baggy I have seen your fervent views about this issue which I understood entirely. However it is the confirmation of those matters stated above that have led me to conclude you were right all along
Chaps and chapesses I was resigned to take the next few months sabbatical, but this point needs to be made.
The IRFU, who I despise with a loathing so vast that has its own gravity, do not care about Ulster Rugby as an organisation. Ulster's success or failure is a matter of complete indifference to them.
Now that Carbery is away to Shan and the lads down in Turnipstan. We are going to be forced to fasttrack Lowry and or McPhillips. Ireland needs a replacement for Sexton and a spare or two. That is Ulster's function for the next couple of seasons. Winning, challenging or even being competitive are optional as long as we produce a nice shiny flyhalf for Joe.
Leinster will be facilitated in winning things, we're the wet nurse.
Hope Loki doesn’t read this thread or there’ll be a load of blah blah blah ranting going on.
Everybody on here knows UR are treated differently by the D4 Bellends, some just prefer to stick their heads in the sand and SUFTUM. Just because you don’t like it and don’t want to believe it, it doesn’t mean it isn’t true.
And is there just the possibility that Gibbes had already worked all this out, combined with the then likelihood of working with Logan? Anyone would have come up with any reason not to stay here.
So we need to rally around what is left
With respect to the supposed Leinster bias, my probably uninformed suspicion has always been that the IRFUs starting position is probably quite similar with all of the four provinces, but that the top brass at Leinster and Munster do a much better job than our equivalents of arguing their corner for exemptions and the like, both privately and through leaking stories to tame journalists. This theory is based on:
(a) The basis that we seemed to have a lot more decisions go our way when Humph was still here and clocking up the mileage to Dublin
(b) The way that Leinster and Munster publicly dealt with the Carbery situation, with the former leaking stories about how he wanted to stay, making him move set a dangerous precedent etc (to the point Schmidt denied being the catalyst) and the latter seeing an opportunity to snipe a new ten with similar placed stories about how partnering Ireland's 9 would be a better fit etc. Meanwhile in Ulster over the same period, rather than doing something similar to make our (obvious) case to sign someone like Ruan and get a bit of public pressure put on the IRFU, our press department were busy alienating the press by barring them from press conferences.
MightyRearranger wrote:With respect to the supposed Leinster bias, my probably uninformed suspicion has always been that the IRFUs starting position is probably quite similar with all of the four provinces, but that the top brass at Leinster and Munster do a much better job than our equivalents of arguing their corner for exemptions and the like, both privately and through leaking stories to tame journalists. This theory is based on:
(a) The basis that we seemed to have a lot more decisions go our way when Humph was still here and clocking up the mileage to Dublin
(b) The way that Leinster and Munster publicly dealt with the Carbery situation, with the former leaking stories about how he wanted to stay, making him move set a dangerous precedent etc (to the point Schmidt denied being the catalyst) and the latter seeing an opportunity to snipe a new ten with similar placed stories about how partnering Ireland's 9 would be a better fit etc. Meanwhile in Ulster over the same period, rather than doing something similar to make our (obvious) case to sign someone like Ruan and get a bit of public pressure put on the IRFU, our press department were busy alienating the press by barring them from press conferences.
You are very correct Mighty. Ulster's representatives have been a soft touch for decades. For every Gordon Hamilton there's a bus load of useful idiots who are played for fools by the Dubs.
MightyRearranger wrote:With respect to the supposed Leinster bias, my probably uninformed suspicion has always been that the IRFUs starting position is probably quite similar with all of the four provinces, but that the top brass at Leinster and Munster do a much better job than our equivalents of arguing their corner for exemptions and the like, both privately and through leaking stories to tame journalists. This theory is based on:
(a) The basis that we seemed to have a lot more decisions go our way when Humph was still here and clocking up the mileage to Dublin
(b) The way that Leinster and Munster publicly dealt with the Carbery situation, with the former leaking stories about how he wanted to stay, making him move set a dangerous precedent etc (to the point Schmidt denied being the catalyst) and the latter seeing an opportunity to snipe a new ten with similar placed stories about how partnering Ireland's 9 would be a better fit etc. Meanwhile in Ulster over the same period, rather than doing something similar to make our (obvious) case to sign someone like Ruan and get a bit of public pressure put on the IRFU, our press department were busy alienating the press by barring them from press conferences.
Indeed. Around 2011/2012 we were allowed to sign Ruan on big bucks and highly sought after, a replacement for BJ Bitha in the form of world cup winner john afoa, a kiwi project player (Payne) who was a super rugby regular and not far from the AB’s squad amd then when he was injured, an immediate high quality replacement in the form of Stefan T.
Compare and contrast to the likes of Arno Botha, Deysel and Hond lus when Marcel got injured last season, we just had to get on with it, with no replace,emt allowed.
Has the irfu approach hardened or the ulster approach softened or a bit of bith?
MightyRearranger wrote:With respect to the supposed Leinster bias, my probably uninformed suspicion has always been that the IRFUs starting position is probably quite similar with all of the four provinces, but that the top brass at Leinster and Munster do a much better job than our equivalents of arguing their corner for exemptions and the like, both privately and through leaking stories to tame journalists. This theory is based on:
(a) The basis that we seemed to have a lot more decisions go our way when Humph was still here and clocking up the mileage to Dublin
(b) The way that Leinster and Munster publicly dealt with the Carbery situation, with the former leaking stories about how he wanted to stay, making him move set a dangerous precedent etc (to the point Schmidt denied being the catalyst) and the latter seeing an opportunity to snipe a new ten with similar placed stories about how partnering Ireland's 9 would be a better fit etc. Meanwhile in Ulster over the same period, rather than doing something similar to make our (obvious) case to sign someone like Ruan and get a bit of public pressure put on the IRFU, our press department were busy alienating the press by barring them from press conferences.
MightyRearranger wrote:With respect to the supposed Leinster bias, my probably uninformed suspicion has always been that the IRFUs starting position is probably quite similar with all of the four provinces, but that the top brass at Leinster and Munster do a much better job than our equivalents of arguing their corner for exemptions and the like, both privately and through leaking stories to tame journalists. This theory is based on:
(a) The basis that we seemed to have a lot more decisions go our way when Humph was still here and clocking up the mileage to Dublin
(b) The way that Leinster and Munster publicly dealt with the Carbery situation, with the former leaking stories about how he wanted to stay, making him move set a dangerous precedent etc (to the point Schmidt denied being the catalyst) and the latter seeing an opportunity to snipe a new ten with similar placed stories about how partnering Ireland's 9 would be a better fit etc. Meanwhile in Ulster over the same period, rather than doing something similar to make our (obvious) case to sign someone like Ruan and get a bit of public pressure put on the IRFU, our press department were busy alienating the press by barring them from press conferences.
Exactly right.
I would argue that actually the IRFU's starting point would be to have a more favourable view of us (and Connacht) than Munster - our finances are decent (due in large part to having a stadium largely funded by the taxpayer), and Connacht are outperforming on a low budget, while Munster have given the IRFU a series of financial headaches over the last few years with their "more in hope than expectation" approach to financial planning.
Leinster have leverage because they are the big providers to the national side, and the national side pays the bills. That's it. I don't think there's much emotion there. If we up our game and provide 10 Irish starters, we will be able to throw our weight around as well.
promsandwich wrote:Always had my suspicions that the 'Leinster get want they want' line was something to do with a big chip on our shoulders about how badly Kiss was doing, Ruan having to leave and the general downward spiral at Ulster. However today I learnt a few things:
1. Jantjies had agreed to come but was blocked by IRFU.
2. UR were also in talks with two other tens - blocked by IRFU.
3. Ruan had agreed to come back to be back up 10, or play 15, or anywhere else but 9 ( except in case of emergencies ) - blocked by IRFU.
4. Leinster are allowed to sign Joe Tomane - an overseas player who is:
(a) Not top class;
(b) Clearly going to block the path of a number of talented players at Leinster;
(c) 'Replacing' Nacewa who it must be remembered was allowed to leave and come back to play in positions when he was clearly blocking the path of a number of young IQ players and had already exceeded the time permitted to stay for overseas players.
Added to this must be the fact that Fardy was signed as a 2nd row, apparently, and played mostly in the back row for the ladies.
The obvious conclusions from above are as follows:
1. The IRFU are a shower of cnuts.
2. The IRFU do not apply their 'rules' about overseas players to the ladies.
3. The IRFU don't give a fcuk about Ulster.
4. We will have to survive on with the kids we have coming through.
5. I am happy with 4. above.
Also forget about Gibson-Park and Lowe
Yes it's frustrating to hear of us being knocked back on the out-half hunt, but my guess is this dates back to the period when the IRFU were pushing the Carberry/Byrne to Ulster plan. That hasn't panned out, not our fault. I still expect us to sign a good NIQ 10. (Jantjies for one is still on the market)
The only fly in the ointment is if they are now trying to push one of Munster's 10s up to us - to work through them: Bleyendaal is a sick note, also a bit flaky, Hanrahan isn't very good at 10, no harm to him - in fairness I'd be surprised if the IRFU tried to force the issue with one of them, and I think we would push back. Johnston is a genuine up and coming talent, and is probably the mid-term answer for Munster at 10 - I think Munster would (rightly) throw up on him being asked to consider a move, and I don't think the IRFU would push that. That leaves Keatley, who would be a decent signing - but given the issues with Bleyendaal/Hanrahan, I can imagine Munster wanting to hold onto him for at least another season. I think though this is the most likely move if one takes place at all..
Interesting that if they're talking to any of the Munster 10s at all, they're doing it very low profile - they have learnt their lesson about trying to flex their muscles from the Carberry debacle..
