Leinster VS Ulster HC QF 01/04/23

[nonplussed]

When my son was playing school 1st XV rugby about 12 years ago they regularly had fixtures against the 'big' Dublin and Cork schools.

I remember chatting to some of the opposition school parents who advised that if a boy was part of the Senior Cup squad (i.e. 1st XV) he was expected to board at the school due to the requirements of training (both gym work and pitch)

I can't expect that that has changed much in the intervening period.

Still stands, but not just senior team members, this is often advised at the equivalent of Medallion level. Interestly, my son has played against a lot of the big Dublin Schools and PBC, Munchins, Wesley etc...and the other provicnial schools struggled even more against the Michaels, Terenure etc... It will be virtually impossible for other provinces to get close to Leinster as they are pulling further and further away

[rumncoke]

Ulster schools still play give it to " Fatboy "Rugby I use the term "Fatboy" because of my dislike of the standard of coaching it represents --

Watch the Leinster schools cup final -- and look at the standard of" Podding" --Rucking --and recycle of the ball --- They are the core skills of the modern game -- kicking and passing are the luxuries of backs -- whereas the back three must be able to catch the ball while in the air .

But the schools game is based on podding rucking and recycle --By numbers

ulster schools -- play big boy carrier rugby --run till your tackled -- and hope you have support all stops and starts and penalties -- with a focus on backline passing etc --

Generally speaking Ulster still annually produces better attacking backs than either Leinster or Munster but lack the aerial skills that prevails in those provences due to GAA influence.
,

[Tap+Go]

Ulster schools still play give it to " Fatboy "Rugby I use the term "Fatboy" because of my dislike of the standard of coaching it represents --

Watch the Leinster schools cup final -- and look at the standard of" Podding" --Rucking --and recycle of the ball --- They are the core skills of the modern game -- kicking and passing are the luxuries of backs -- whereas the back three must be able to catch the ball while in the air .

But the schools game is based on podding rucking and recycle --By numbers

ulster schools -- play big boy carrier rugby --run till your tackled -- and hope you have support all stops and starts and penalties -- with a focus on backline passing etc --

Generally speaking Ulster still annually produces better attacking backs than either Leinster or Munster but lack the aerial skills that prevails in those provences due to GAA influence.
,

Agreed. The Leinster schools forward phase play is highly developed in those Dublin private schools & results in super quick ruck ball. Their forwards are used to playing that professional style game & are able to make good decisions on when to carry, tip the ball or play out the back depending on what’s on from playing like that day in & day out.

Ulster underage sessions spend lots of time training this but the issue is that many of the kids aren’t getting this level of phase play & decision making in their school coaching/games so when the pressure comes on they default to the straight up carry. If you are an Ulster underage forward from a smaller school - you are likely used to being the main ball carrier. This will be encouraged by the school coaches also as likely more chance of winning the more you are on the ball so phase play goes out the window. Crowds at schools & youth games also encourage one up carries. Need to encourage upskilling forwards & coaches at the schools/clubs level in more advanced set up & phase play.

[StandUp]

Only just sobered up and I'm working my way slowly through this game having a good look multiple times at every penalty conceded. Luke Pearce was INCREDIBLY hard on us imo. Some of those penalties against could/should have been Ulsterui penalties. And these are penalties that soon led to trys. Said it before and will say again Leinster are not only the best team but are thee best cheaters in the game. McCanns attempt at a tackle on Baird was criminal. He didn't want to know. Should be sent back to Banbridge to see out the season. McLoskey was dire. 2 pens and 2 knock ons in the first 24 mins is Incredibly poor for his standard. His rampaging runs are a rare sight these days. Doak and burns are the most boring/uninventive halfback combination in world rugby. Treadwell too lightweight. Big name signings who were brought in for the business end of the season were AWOL. Lowry isn't a 15, but isn't a 10 ... so what's the point of him? Can't catch, can't kick (zero distance) and runs into brick walls every time these days and concedes penalties in doing so. Baloucoune lazy and along with Lowry can't catch a ball. Only shining light was Stockdale. Maybe Sheridan.

I can’t really disagree with too much of that HT.

[HwoodMike2umate]

I no who I blame.

[Marco]

Stuart Lancaster, and fairplay to him for saying it in an age of pc and boring media-trained interviewees, set out his stall yesterday, saying it’s nothing to do with demographics, just coaching, and I do agree. Should make for some interesting team talks in the next fortnight, would love to see the dice roll so that we get another crack at them in the league playoffs, although unlikely unless we can beat Stormers away.

Noted also that Gerry Thornley and Fiona Coghlan both praised the Uster effort, attack play and commitment on Saturday and agreed Pearce was tough on several occasions, particularly Hume yellow. Discipline, discipline, discipline….

[So It Is]

Much like playing NZ during the period of 2008-2016, to beat Leinster you need to play the perfect game, and even then, you need the ref to go hard on them, to have half a chance of winning.

We should've had a yellow in the first half tbf, so even though Hume's YC was harsh it was in the post. I wouldn't throw any blame Pearce's way for losing.

We lost because we messed up at key moments. McCloskey's idiotic penalty in at the side in the ruck kicking it backwards when there was little pressure, that ultimately led to Baird's try I think. Poor tackling at the fringes of the ruck from McCann was the final nail in that coffin. Lowry getting turned over by Baird was another one. Fluffing our lines at the lineout in their 22 around 50mins was criminal. Plus a whole host of other idiotic penalties.

Just not good enough or disciplined enough to hit the levels required to beat Leinster.

[Cap'n Grumpy]

Met a couple of ballbegs who didn't realise they were supporting 9 counties and were amazed that I could name the team 1-23 . Other than that, one of my better away experiences. Never seen the Horse Show so bunged - god knows how many safety regs were breached? Actually lost my daughter in there and had to phone her

You sure it wasn't the other way round?

She had promised your wife she would look after you and ensure you behaved, but you snuck away from her watchful eyes to misbehave?

That's the arrangement my cub has with his mother anyway.

And as for regulations, yes, the southern equivalent of Eventsec is actually staffed with human beings who think and act for themselves. They're even very helpful. On one occasion we had fixed flegs to the barrier at the back of the North Stand (I think) and one of their stewards was sent to ask us to take it down - yes, ASK us, as it was partially covering an advert that some company had paid good money for.

When explained in such reasonable terms (that you wouldn't get at Ravers), we actually complied. When the steward then went to take our flegs off us, we did complain, until he politely explained he wasn't confiscating them, but merely going to help us put them back up in a space where there weren't any adverts but could still be seen from the pitch. And he did, even producing extra cable-ties to replace the ones we had to cut to take them down in the first place.

Ya see, there are some nice people in Dublin (and Limerick and Galway where similar politeness and helpfulness has been encountered). Indeed, I would go so far as to say the majority are nice decent people. It's just Leinster who seem to have attracted "the wrong sort" in larger numbers since their rise to the top of rugby on this island.

[Cap'n Grumpy]

Much like playing NZ during the period of 2008-2016, to beat Leinster you need to play the perfect game, and even then, you need the ref to go hard on them, to have half a chance of winning.

We should've had a yellow in the first half tbf, so even though Hume's YC was harsh it was in the post. I wouldn't throw any blame Pearce's way for losing.

We lost because we messed up at key moments. McCloskey's idiotic penalty in at the side in the ruck kicking it backwards when there was little pressure, that ultimately led to Baird's try I think. Poor tackling at the fringes of the ruck from McCann was the final nail in that coffin. Lowry getting turned over by Baird was another one. Fluffing our lines at the lineout in their 22 around 50mins was criminal. Plus a whole host of other idiotic penalties.

Just not good enough or disciplined enough to hit the levels required to beat Leinster.

Fairly good summation. I'm not a big fan or Pearce, but nor is he the worst. There were times I was screaming at him for missing an offence by Leinster or being harsh on Ulster, but ultimately he wasn't to blame for us losing. We were more than capable of doing that for ourselves

[UlsterNo9]

Murray Kinsella as per usual has nail on head reasoning for defeat.


https://the42.ie/6036565

Very well informed piece of journalism.

[HammerTime]

Copy and paste it on here if you can.

[DodgyEverything]

Murray Kinsella as per usual has nail on head reasoning for defeat.


https://the42.ie/6036565

Very well informed piece of journalism.

Now that the 42 is behind a paywall, I want to make sure people don't accidentally get around it. So don't visit https://12ft.io/proxy?q=https%3A%2F%2Fw ... 65-Apr2023

It strips the CSS seemingly so the formatting is a bit off until you scroll down far enough to see the article body (another reason to definitely not go there)

[Big-al]

Stuart Lancaster, and fairplay to him for saying it in an age of pc and boring media-trained interviewees, set out his stall yesterday, saying it’s nothing to do with demographics, just coaching, and I do agree. Should make for some interesting team talks in the next fortnight, would love to see the dice roll so that we get another crack at them in the league playoffs, although unlikely unless we can beat Stormers away.

Noted also that Gerry Thornley and Fiona Coghlan both praised the Uster effort, attack play and commitment on Saturday and agreed Pearce was tough on several occasions, particularly Hume yellow. Discipline, discipline, discipline….

If it was to do with demographics then England and France would dominate world rugby and NZ/Wales/Ireland would get hammered 50 points to them.

McFarland & the Ulster branch need to remember that there is almost 2million people in NI, another 400,000 in the other 3 counties I think and we’ve a decent economy/capital city.

Ulster shouldn’t be that far behind Leinster. We have the population/economy and fan base to be at their level, not to mention the rugby and sporting culture.

It’s a loser mentality. Ulster need to get the club and school producing more.

Look at the calibre of players coming through the Leinster club structure. Tadge Beirne, Sean o’brien, Furlong, Jamie Osborne etc.

Ulster rugby need to accept we have a lot going for us and stop looking for excuses.

[jean valjean]

I don't think mcfarland is quoting demographics as in total numbers of people. He is referring to the location and number of private schools who are head and shoulders above others in Ireland. I still can't fathom how leinster branch can take credit for the development of these players before they join the academy. Anyone know if branch money / coaching is put into these schools?

For info and stolen from leinster forum here are the products of just 2 schools.
Anyone want to claim they only got good once Lancaster got hold of them?


Blackrock: (15-9,1-8): Hugo Keenan, Tommy O'Brien, Garry Ringrose, Liam Turner, Andrew Conway, Joey Carbery, Paddy Patterson, Jeremy Loughman, Dave Heffernan, Oli Jager, Gavin Thornbury, Joe McCarthy, Nick Timoney, Conor Oliver, Caelan Doris.

Rock reps: [hooker - blank], Denis Buckley, Tom Clarkson, James Culhane, Jordi Murphy, Ian Madigan, Ben Brownlee, Sean O'Brien. (6-2 split, Madigan covering s/h).

Michaels: (15-9,1-8): Chris Cosgrave, Andrew Smith, Rory O'Loughlin, Noel Reid, Rob Russell, Ross Byrne, Luke McGrath, Jack Boyle, Ronan Kelleher, Denis Coulson, Ross Molony, James Ryan, Ryan Baird, Scott Penny, Max Deegan.

Reps: Lee Barron, [LHP- blank], [THP - blank], Oisin Dowling, Josh Murphy, Nick McCarthy, Harry Byrne, Henry McErlean

[big mervyn]

Met a couple of ballbegs who didn't realise they were supporting 9 counties and were amazed that I could name the team 1-23 . Other than that, one of my better away experiences. Never seen the Horse Show so bunged - god knows how many safety regs were breached? Actually lost my daughter in there and had to phone her

You sure it wasn't the other way round?

She had promised your wife she would look after you and ensure you behaved, but you snuck away from her watchful eyes to misbehave?

That's the arrangement my cub has with his mother anyway.

And as for regulations, yes, the southern equivalent of Eventsec is actually staffed with human beings who think and act for themselves. They're even very helpful. On one occasion we had fixed flegs to the barrier at the back of the North Stand (I think) and one of their stewards was sent to ask us to take it down - yes, ASK us, as it was partially covering an advert that some company had paid good money for.

When explained in such reasonable terms (that you wouldn't get at Ravers), we actually complied. When the steward then went to take our flegs off us, we did complain, until he politely explained he wasn't confiscating them, but merely going to help us put them back up in a space where there weren't any adverts but could still be seen from the pitch. And he did, even producing extra cable-ties to replace the ones we had to cut to take them down in the first place.

Ya see, there are some nice people in Dublin (and Limerick and Galway where similar politeness and helpfulness has been encountered). Indeed, I would go so far as to say the majority are nice decent people. It's just Leinster who seem to have attracted "the wrong sort" in larger numbers since their rise to the top of rugby on this island.

Yes Grumps. No complaints re the Aviva staff. My tkt wouldn't scan but I was provided with another tout suite.
We also were politely asked not to lean over the tunnel (we really lucked out with the tkts this time!) Because somebody had previously dropped a pint on one of the players