La Rochelle Vs Ulster Sun 22/10/17 15.15 Sky Sports Action

[mid ulster maestro]

Russ. Do you have a link you would care to share?

[BaggyTrousers]

Im surprised at the level of outrage aimed at Ulster by some on here. A quick search showed that in 2015/16 The La Rochelle budget was 16.4 Million. Ulsters was 9.3. At the end of the day we - and the other Provinces cannot continue to compete with the English and French. They have the money to buy whoever they want - to develop players etc. We simply dont.

Funnily enough the Guardian has rounded on the PRL for fecking up this competition today

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Good spot young man, though worth quoting to make life easier for your elders:

If the loss of a team’s opening two games in Europe is enough to consign their hopes of progress to dust – and it almost always is – then this season’s champions will come from England, France or Ireland. “What’s new?” cynics might ask. “We’ve always known that.” And they would be right. But there is something to be said for hoping, at least, that a Welsh, Scottish or Italian side might make the quarter-finals.

There is no such hope this time. When the Ospreys’ exhilarating attempt to storm fortress Barnet fell three points shy of victory against Saracens on Saturday night, attention resignedly turned to the usual suspects.

This season there are only four representatives from Wales, Scotland and Italy anyway, where once there were seven or eight, lending the old Heineken Cup its special flavour. All four of them have collected two defeats from two, which means, midway through the second month of the season, it is time for them to “concentrate on the league”.

The Ospreys, it should be said, have three points from those first two defeats. Victories in the next two rounds over shell-shocked Northampton, while Saracens and Clermont take chunks out of each other, may yet offer a glimmer of light. But, as Alun Wyn Jones sat in the press room afterwards, a beer in his hand, ice strapped to his knee, his legs pockmarked by the scars of this and so many other battles, he more or less accepted that that was it for the Ospreys and Europe for another season. He cuts a lone reference point these days. It is not hard, though, to remember a time when he was surrounded by Ospreys team-mates of a similar standing in international rugby to his, when they were live contenders for whichever competition they entered.


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One season – two rounds indeed – is clearly not enough from which to extrapolate grand conclusions. Glasgow and the Scarlets were tipped by many to reach the quarter-finals this season, and with good reason. They are richly talented and boast the pedigree of recent domestic champions, even if the suspicion remains that neither are hard enough of mind to force their way to victory when the fates are conspiring against. Glasgow, indeed, made their debut in the knockout stages only last season. That is significant progress.

What is incontestable, though, is that rugby’s new Europe has been designed to intensify the competition, to narrow the focus, eliminate the weak. This much has been achieved, the ferocity of some of these pools all but unprecedented. The ruthless new format has been hailed as an improvement. It is an elite competition after all, with no time for losers.

The trouble is that losers are necessary. There cannot be winners without them. If a competition is serious about improving itself, it must bring on the weaker teams rather than cut them loose as the Champions Cup did when it reduced its count from 24 to 20 and will again when it removes the last of its free passes next season, which will likely cost the participation of the Italians.

In sport the survival-of-the-fittest creed that defines capitalism applies nowhere more ruthlessly than on the field. But in the boardroom it must be overridden. Sport cannot afford to whittle out its losers because even the most powerful winners need opponents to play against. The more there are, the healthier the competition.

Such breadth and length of vision, however, requires strong governance. The transition from Heineken Cup to Champions Cup involved the transfer of power from unions to the competitors themselves, in other words to those with no interest beyond the here and now.

The old system did institute a certain degree of subsidisation of the Celts and Italians by the English and French, which is as it should be, considering the power of the latter. The new, though, has redressed that balance, the monies now shared out according to feeder league rather than union. Mark McCafferty, the chief executive of Premier Rugby, has tried to claim that everyone is getting richer but he insults the intelligence of the game’s followers.

If an individual becomes richer by one unit while competitors do so by three or four, that individual is, in fact, becoming poorer. A GCSE economics student knows that much. So it is with rugby’s new Europe. The reorganisation overwhelmingly favoured the English and French, who were already hoovering up most of the global talent as it was. Now they are becoming world rugby’s black hole. The Irish are holding out for now, although the current squads of Munster and Leinster are nothing like as powerful as they once were, but the Welsh are teetering. The Ospreys are a shadow of their former selves and it is easy to forget the Scarlets/Llanelli were thrice semi-finalists in the Heineken Cup.

A certain amount, of course, is cyclical, the natural rise and fall of dynasties, but another dynamic is at work now. One should not need a GCSE in economics to see where this is heading.

A good article and absolutely accurate, it's already pretty obvious that outside of England and France, only Leinster have the remotest chance of competing for such is the depth of their squad and of course being the FIRFU's pet province also helps when recruiting. That said, though they have an excellent depth of talent, I don't think their best XV are as good as when they won 3 Heinos though their XXIII might be close.

I mean who do you think was behind the move to get rid of Pienaar? Which province signed a scrum half not IQ'd?

The hated & hateful Mexicans, just as they did the dirt behind Fit's back in 2013 when he thought he had secured the PRO12 final being at Spanners if we topped the league, yes our old friends the fu'cking Mexicans, self-interest again their overriding driver, having initially agreed that a slightly reduced capacity at the unfinished stadium would be acceptable.

Some may think my oft stated hatred of the Dublinbastards is envy, it's not, it's a simple fact that they are kunts, proper ones who will smile to your face and stab you in the back.

Munster are a cut above Ulster but very much below the hated Mexicans, they too forced to shed a popular son, D Ryan. I expected them to put Scaaaaaaaaaaalets away last may, but again their best XV are nowhere close to the 2006 & 8 teams.

[BR]

I've been at 2 in France and they lost both, Stade Francaise and Toulouse, there was certainly another loss to SF time of the snow, they also lost in Clermont and I can't be arsed thinking of others.

They also drew 35 -35 with Toulouse. dHumph missed a relatively easy conversion that should have won the game.

Wasn't that easy. Lucky to draw in the end.

[BaggyTrousers]

I've been at 2 in France and they lost both, Stade Francaise and Toulouse, there was certainly another loss to SF time of the snow, they also lost in Clermont and I can't be arsed thinking of others.

They also drew 35 -35 with Toulouse. dHumph missed a relatively easy conversion that should have won the game.

Maybe so Jack but when he missed it who would have thought it mattered. Then we scored 14 points in good old much lamented "injury time".

I always look at that damned clock and curse it. It was better when a team had to play rather than play out time, for the only person who knew when the final whistle would blow was the ref, not the "10,9,8, 7 ........2,1 Yeow" crowd.

[BaggyTrousers]

And just as I post about the benefit of being the pet province, Munster lose another player, Zebrother off at the end of the season, destination undisclosed.

[BR]

Generally, I'm quite surprised by the quiet acceptance of an absolute drubbing that has come through this thread. There is something to be said about applauding a team who stand up well in the face of a significant better opponent; when the losing team plays well; and when the scoreboard is a fair reflection of the outcome. With Ulster's performance yesterday, I struggle with the first two.

Ulster did well in the first-half, having made life difficult for themselves by conceding an avoidable early try. This is a problem Ulster have had a lot in this competition in the last few years. I can't think of any other team who so regularly gifts up an early score to quality opposition as Ulster do. The team defended well and looked purposeful when they got the ball.

At the start of the second half, all of the pressure came on and, to start with, Ulster absorbed it well. The defence was strong. Key turnovers, on which momentum could swing, were won. And then, under the cosh, Ulster turn the ball over and Lealiifano, inexplicably, chose to keep the ball live. One could say this was a poor decision made in the heat of the moment but I struggle to see that. Ulster's exist strategy in this competition has been incredibly poor in recent years. Keep the ball live after turnovers seems to be a thing they've been told to do. In reality, it just invites the unrelenting pressure that became too much yesterday.

Remarkably, after that poor exit, Ulster somehow held on and didn't concede. Indeed, they managed to turn the ball over again and Cooney, I suppose at least trying to hit touch, messed it up. The ball stayed live. And eventually, La Rochelle scored. Ulster had some sort of opportunity to attempt to affect a momentum shift at least twice in this period. As it was, they totally messed it up; instead of affecting a momentum shift, Ulster invited more energy-sapping pressure. After that score, Ulster fell apart. They looked bereft of leadership and shipped a bunch more tries.

I'm happy to accept that Ulster were duffed by a much better team but I cannot accept that this was a passable performance by Ulster. It wasn't. Not by a long shot.

So we need a player who can kick for touch, make decisions and be a leader, is that what you're saying?

Can't argue with that.

We arent allowed to talk about that!

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I meant make good decisions.

[CIMANFOREVER]

I wonder how long before we run the risk of breaking our emergency cover 10. He has been carrying an injury for a few weeks and this weekend still seen us go with no back-up except that Cooney would presumably cover both positions.

Our back-up-to our emergency cover 10 was off with the A's and our back-up to our back-up was to be on the bench elsewhere only to be pulled last minute dot.com and taken to France in case we had to start the game with no 10... in the end he came off and I seen enough of Cooney to think he should maybe stick at 9..

lets hope we don't break Christian.. because all those other break glass options aren't being allowed anywhere near a pitch.

I agree with elements of what yourself, Baggy and NeilF have discussed. For me:

Cooney was hung out to dry- asking to go 10 when it's been so long was BS. Nelson should've benched with JC, and we maybe would've been better 6 and 2 split. Diddies we can't do anything about. CB did quite well against a biy 5 stone heavier- it's no wonder he offered little around the park. We went in with one guy covering 2 positions fs.

For me the following had a major contribution:
Selection:
1. Lack of confidence to go with Stockcube instead of either Bowe or Trimble. He would've asked more questions
2. Aforementioned Nelson and a 6/2 split. The pack were fecked at the end, and the backs essentially hung them out to dry with profligate kicking away possession at crucial moments when we needed to keep ball and run them around the park. We let their big pack reset and batter away in and around the fringes until we ran out of tacklers. Cooney with Nelson could've least kicked the leather off the thing and made touch.
3. Overall lack of belief that we could come away with even a LBP. It was there for the taking, same as a 5 pointer was agin Waspies.
4. We were the authors of our own substantial downfall after half time- I doubt they were expecting the cut and thrust riposte they got in the first 40. But you can't sink a battleship with a peashooter, and ballast and bench depth in the forwards did for us, along with ineptitude in decision making and pro players melting down in the heat of battle.

So yea, I think there was an element of us being p*sh poor and lacking real leadership at crucial times from experienced go to players- the same deficiency that has becalmed us since Johan retired. Plus two guys who are sadly past their best. Caveman was often sublime btw...
The irony is, we could still qualify form this group if we have the balls to go for it and some luck with injuries. 5 out of 6 is eminently possible. We can beat the Lionels home and way. ALR is doable with a fair wind, luck with injuries and a full metal jacket showing at Ravers similar to Clermont last season, especially if ALR are home and hosed and focus on the Tap 14.

[BaggyTrousers]

I very much doubt we will win at the Stoop never mind Coventry, CIMAN, as you will understand, there is much I agree with in your post but you seem to have entirely forgotten what our away form has been.

Neither do I believe we are equipped to beat them at Spanners, I have awful flashbacks to Bordeaux last season when we couldn't cope with their fatties at Spanners.

Now does anyone know what was Diddies problem? I'm assuming we will not see Girrid this calendar year if at all, I understand he's as fit as a fiddle but his head isn't poor chap, I know all about my own peculiar type of a migraine, it appears he has a weird one too, different but weird. Rory looked like someone had pished in his chips coming off and I suspect that will drop our best three-quarter on the day. Is Big Red fit, is CL broken badly?

All these with the hated Mexicans coming on Saturday.

[Cap'n Grumpy]

Good Ulsterman that I am, I've been at 5 of the 3 games they've lost in France

Would ya stop going then?

Yer a scud ... bad luck ... a jinx - STAY AWAY!

How many of the wins has he been at though? He's probably been at all 3 of the 7 wins.

There's no need to introduce logic to this BR

[BR]

Good Ulsterman that I am, I've been at 5 of the 3 games they've lost in France

Would ya stop going then?

Yer a scud ... bad luck ... a jinx - STAY AWAY!

How many of the wins has he been at though? He's probably been at all 3 of the 7 wins.

There's no need to introduce logic to this BR

True, that was unfair for me.

Applying arithmetic, memory and a fag packet*, instead in order to assist Robo. I make it:
played: 22
won: 4
drew: 1
lost: 17

* any miscalculation will be blamed on the smoking ban and lack of actual fag packets.

[Dave]

If you look at the team that left the field at the end, I'm surprised that LAR didn't score more considering they humped Clermont the week before. Warwick, Rodney, Diack, Rea (first SDC), p, Cooney at 10, Bowe...

Leinster will get a hiding.

[Gary]

But it all depends on whether Kiss thinks we have even a modicum of a chance against Leinster. If he thinks not, it'll be interesting to see which of our best players he'll leave out this week. Charlie, Stockdale again? At least Cave would get another game...so not all bad.

[Russ]

But it all depends on whether Kiss thinks we have even a modicum of a chance against Leinster. If he thinks not, it'll be interesting to see which of our best players he'll leave out this week. Charlie, Stockdale again? At least Cave would get another game...so not all bad.

Leinster is not being targetted

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[thecrouch]

But it all depends on whether Kiss thinks we have even a modicum of a chance against Leinster. If he thinks not, it'll be interesting to see which of our best players he'll leave out this week. Charlie, Stockdale again? At least Cave would get another game...so not all bad.

Leinster is not being targetted

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lol.

If Lesley threw a home game against Mexico there'd be a coup d'etat.

[Cornerfleg]

Depends if the impending result has been predestined by Joe or not.
Joe might want the greatest things since Ringrose, #theotherkearney #mcfabulous #Carburygodlikegenius #hislovechildren to be allowed to demonstrate why they are vastly superior to any else on this island and that their faces fit.