Positives and Negatives: Ulster V Dragons

[Bart S]

I remembering seeing an interview with Maaaark a couple of weeks ago where he said that yes, of course it's important to identify areas to work on and to try to rectify these issues during the week but that when you're winning like we are, it's also important to step back and look at the overall picture and not just be critical, even within the group.

For me this was a pretty itneresting take as we all tend to focsu on what there is to work on and expect the guys to be doing that week in week out with a bit of a talking to from the coaches, yet in fairness, it's also good to given them credit for an overall job well done.

After a game like tonight they certainly deserve some credit despite some weaknesses to work on.

[archie]

Positives: Trimby was immense, everyone got game time, Decci Fitz lasted at least 50 mins before getting another injury! 6 tries when I did not think we even got out of 2nd gear. Henry was top draw. Line out was 100% even without Johan.

Negatives: Ruan had a mare I thought despite his try. His goal kicking was awful first half and his handling was terrible when he went to scrum half. I know he's a class act in general but last night he was poor. Best has been crucified on here the last couple of weeks by some for throwing one or two lineout crooked or for giving Paul Marshall a kick up the Brennan yet Ruan gets hardly a mention when he duck hooked at least 3 kicks at goal last night and made at least two handling errors that a 10 year old would be disappointed with in a minis game. Some players seem untouchable on here.

[Kofi Annan]

Maybe it's just my hearing but at the start of the game the crowd were very vocal even more than the crew on the 2BC, and where giving Ulster players a hard time, akin to yon 2BC silly chanting, maybe Big Tom was just over reactive, anyway to my point wtf is this phrase "strike runners" it was like McWhirter and Field discovered a new play thing and tried to get it into every sentence last night. I assume it will be the new phrase bandied about here by our cyber level 3 coaches

[ColinM]

On subject of our commentary team, Constable gets worse every week. Hes like a video game commentator from the 90s where he has half a dozen phrases that get played in certain circumstances. Usually after a cornerfleg player displays a high level of power or skill

[againstthehead]

i thought the dragons fans seemed very quiet - as though they had no belief - even when they went in at half-time so close. Perhaps that translated to their team.

Henderson was terrific in my opinion. He made a couple of errors but I think everyone did. Pienaar probably more than anyone... He carried and tackled superbly well and it's players like that who are an inspiration to the rest of the side. Sometimes in a game, you need something to lift a side and Henderson is certainly a player that can change the momentum of a game. By no means the finished article but talented young Ulster forwards are thin on the ground. Why not get excited when one crashes onto the scene!

[ardsrugbyards]

For those who didn't like TC's try celebration, he's just apologised on twitter for getting carried away.

i think the big man just overreacts when he gets a try he gets that pumped up and when he crosses the line he opens the valve, the last try (and maybe the only try) he scored for Ireland he roared like a lion and burst a few blood vessels in his neck, think after a few try's in he will get used to it and take it in his stride , good job Big Nick doesn't do similar for all the try's he scores......

[ardsrugbyards]

+ good show of Ulster fans at rodney parade considering the large turn out 7 days earlier in glasgee

[breakdown]

Quite a good performance, but it even scares me how good we can be and the potential of the squad with a full team out and if we cut out the errors. The potential is scary!

[Rooster]

When you really take that match apart we were pretty average a lot of the time, basic silly errors, stupid penaltys etc but hey who cares we knocked the fire out of the Dragons

[Amiga500]

Henderson was a liability tonight, his youth and inexperience really showed up this evening.

I'm glad I am not the only one who thought he was far from "immense".

I also noted a few times when we were mauling and he was... awkward about joining the tail - I think he was a contributing factor in at least one of them falling to pieces.


Early days for the man - the hand skills are there as is the physicality, its just the mind has to sharpen to the professional game. Hopefully it will come in (not too much) time.

[Cap'n Grumpy]

Henderson was a liability tonight, .......... he generally did look a little out of his depth.

The boy played well, but 'immense' he was not.

Interesting definition of "played well"

Not too many would agree that being a liability and being out of his depth equalled playing well.

On the point of his age being irrelevant, that he's playing for Ulster, so he needs to be good enough, that may be the case for the imports we bring in, but even they (in whatever club/league they started in) did not start their careers as the finished article, and nor should we expect our own home grown (home growing) talent to be either. The simple fact is that every player needs time and experience to reach their best and the only way to do that is give them that time and experience on the pitch to learn. If that means they get over eager at times, give a way a few penalties from time to time, so be it ..... so long as they learn from it, improve and their overall contribution more than makes up for these shortcomings as they are learning. I for one say, well played Iain Henderson - keep on going and you'll be the better for it.

Liability? No

Out of his depth? Definitely not (no more than most players on the Dragons team)

Played well? Yes - mostly.

As for a Positives and Negatives thread at this stage of the season - I know it has now become traditional, but have we become a bunch of wingeing weemen? Of course we made mistakes last night, as we have in other matches, as have the best teams in the world, but "negatives"? Come on!

We're 8 from 8, top of the heiny group, top of the league - I can only see positives. Yes, there are things for the squad to work on going forward, but negatives? I don't think so!

[Cap'n Grumpy]

Maybe it's just my hearing but at the start of the game the crowd were very vocal even more than the crew on the 2BC, and where giving Ulster players a hard time, akin to yon 2BC silly chanting, maybe Big Tom was just over reactive,

It's just your hearing!

anyway to my point wtf is this phrase "strike runners" it was like McWhirter and Field discovered a new play thing and tried to get it into every sentence last night. I assume it will be the new phrase bandied about here by our cyber level 3 coaches

The only mention I've seen of it is here. Are you a cyber level 3 coach?

[scrum5]

Not a negative and not a criticism but Tommy Bowe is playing far below the standard that he has set, he has run some brilliant lines and not got much reward for them but his general play has been sloppy eg passing to players in his own half and the fielding of the ball in his own 22, with more game time it will improve. As for Ruan thought he was fine last night at 10 but when Paddy J came on and Pienaar moved back to 9 he looked so much better, Jackson had a good cameo especially the inside flick pass for Jareds' try. The changing of the ball to the other hand so he could fend off the last defender may seem rather simplistic but it is a skill that a lot of players don't seem to have, I think it's called a rugby brain and Jared certainly has one of them...

[scrum5]

Henderson was a liability tonight, .......... he generally did look a little out of his depth.

The boy played well, but 'immense' he was not.

Interesting definition of "played well"

Not too many would agree that being a liability and being out of his depth equalled playing well.

On the point of his age being irrelevant, that he's playing for Ulster, so he needs to be good enough, that may be the case for the imports we bring in, but even they (in whatever club/league they started in) did not start their careers as the finished article, and nor should we expect our own home grown (home growing) talent to be either. The simple fact is that every player needs time and experience to reach their best and the only way to do that is give them that time and experience on the pitch to learn. If that means they get over eager at times, give a way a few penalties from time to time, so be it ..... so long as they learn from it, improve and their overall contribution more than makes up for these shortcomings as they are learning. I for one say, well played Iain Henderson - keep on going and you'll be the better for it.

Liability? No

Out of his depth? Definitely not (no more than most players on the Dragons team)

Played well? Yes - mostly.

As for a Positives and Negatives thread at this stage of the season - I know it has now become traditional, but have we become a bunch of wingeing weemen? Of course we made mistakes last night, as we have in other matches, as have the best teams in the world, but "negatives"? Come on!

We're 8 from 8, top of the heiny group, top of the league - I can only see positives. Yes, there are things for the squad to work on going forward, but negatives? I don't think so!

Excellent post Grumps.......

[Dave]

by Dave » Fri Oct 26, 2012 11:09 pm

Henderson was immense fuzzy. He was aggressive and powerful in contact. He stopped players and drove them back on a few occaisons. He had couple of big carries as well, bumping off tackles. Totally ridiculous to say he was out of his depth because of a few errors in an error ridden game. Pienaar and Bowe out of their depth too? Try watching the game with your eyes open this time
He didn't fall off any tackles either. Needless negativity about a player who stood out this evening.

NO ONE on that pitch was immense tonight. Collectively we were poor, individually we were poor.

He had 2 good carries, and knocked on at the end of one like I already said.

He lost his head on several occasions. A rush of blood to the head gifted the Dragons the opening 3 points, he gifted them another 3 later in the half and he cocked up a potential try rushing in at first receiver.

These brain farts are classic signs of a player who is out of his depth and trying too hard to look good.

Tommy and Jared make mistakes sure, they are seasoned player's who know when things are on and when they arnt. Its the execution that let them down, not over eagerness.

My negativity is a direct response to the standard UAFC over hype of an Ulster player.

The boy played well, but 'immense' he was not.

The word immense, to me really just means great, or maybe slightly better than great. Not as good as fantastic or excellent. You say no one was immense, not Trimble, Nick Williams or Henry. Especially Henry who busted his balls all game?

Neither of two penalties he gave away would be given by a decent ref. Fitzgibbon, as Baggy said earlier, pings everything he sees without considering how the offence effects the flow of the game. He pinged Hendo when he didn't roll away, yet it was once of those instances were it would be more disruptive to the scrum half to move and the ball was clearly available, Hendy just lay still to minimise the disruption. The second pen was for hands in the ruck. This needs a second look as Hendo was on his feet and his hands were near the ball but it looked to me more likely a dragons foot that dislodged the ball. Henderson made no scooping motion to force that ball back that I could see although his hands were in the vicinity of the ball. Was very harsh at least, at worst just a wrong call by the ref. He made more than two carries as far as i can remember. He knocked on but to say that these were BRAINFARTS?? That is overstating his errors and for what purpose I dont know? Anyone else think these were brainfarts?

You say that Henderson is trying too hard to look good as a classic sign of being him being out of his depth? Classic signs according to whom? Are you seriously standing by the statement that Iain Henderson was out of his depth against the Dragons in the Pro 12 last night? Making statements like that is a reductionist approach not considering other reasons, like it was just a simple error and move on. No for you it can only mean he is trying too hard and out of his depth against the team we scored six tries against. I look forward to seeing you tryin to extricate yourself from that remark, as you no doubt will.

No one is overhyping Henderson just reflecting on an immense performance. Hyping the guy would saying he'll be Ireland captain in 5 years time. You're free to write whatever you like, but don't expect others not to challenge you when you overstate or be overly negative for no apparent reason.

In the same post you have stated, in a diachotic manner, that Henderson is out of his depth and also conversely the boy played well. How about you decide which one you are standing by. I'm suggesting the latter.