Summer Tour 2014

[Shan]

I think Zebo will grow up eventually Shan. Felix is the one that scunners me. I thought he was going to be superb, but it hasn't really happened for him.

Yeah me too Snipe. When he first came down from Dublin I had such high hopes but I think the injuries really knocked him back physically and maybe mentally. Such a pity but I can't see him make it now.

Agreed on Zebo also. Just wish he would hurry up while he still has all his pace.

[Russ]

Zebo needs to stop thinking people likr his personality

Anscombe Out

[Snipe Watson]

Zebo needs to stop thinking people likr his personality

Anscombe Out

He was pumped up by the press and told he was the next best thing. Unfortunately he believed all the flannel thought he was a superstar and acted accordingly.

[kingofthehill]

Bowe is having trouble with his groin.

Get him fully rested for the start of next season.

[Will59]

Bowe is having trouble with his groin.

Get him fully rested for the start of next season.

Nothing to do with the wedding plans I hope.....

[Rooster]

Kilcoyne can't scrummage which may be an issue depending on who the Argies select. James Cronin is better and will be far better in time. His only issue is he is a bit of a hothead. If he is managed correctly though he could become one of Ireland's best.

Varley can't throw the ball and I am not certain about his scrummaging but he is decent enough sometimes around the field when he is not burdened with captaincy. I wouldn''t even select him for Munster to be honest but if they are going to persevere with him he needs to get some gametime.


Rest of the pack is fair enough though I am not sure why SOB bothered getting back if he wasn't going to be selected. Then again he is probably not worth risking for such a tour.


Would like to see Trimble and Earls on the wing again. They have shone before in the same team and both are not just 100% team players but they also have that extra touch of class, along with Bowe, which some of the other Irish wingers are missing. Zebo, despite his efforts v Toulon, still has to prove he actually wants to play the game and not just score the odd try. No question about McFadden's commitment but he lacks the x-factor but Iike him as I like all good honest players.

Hopefully the Irish management won't be f-cking Cave around like Ulster did moving him to 12 to accomodate a full back at 13. Himself and Henshaw need to battle it out for the 13 jersey. Marshall should be 12 and if necessary at any point Sexton can go there or even McFadden. Felix Jones isn't good enough against top level Rabo opposition. Not sure what he is doing there. Zebo can over 15, even though I still have plenty of doubts about his attitude but not his ability.

Bowe is having trouble with his groin.

Get him fully rested for the start of next season.

Nothing to do with the wedding plans I hope.....

Would hope not as he is not getting married until next summer !

[BaggyTrousers]

Outside chance of Darren Cave paying in the tests against Argentina. Henshaw has a damaged hand and with no other 13 on tour it would appear Cave might get the nod.

However seasoned Cave watchers will still be imagining several permutations that could yet be used to exclude him. After all he has no future as a 13 in Ireland given InTheArse's clear superiority in all departments........... except most.

Kiwis Out (except Fat Nick).

[Russ]

Outside chance of Darren Cave paying in the tests against Argentina. Henshaw has a damaged hand and with no other 13 on tour it would appear Cave might get the nod.

However seasoned Cave watchers will still be imagining several permutations that could yet be used to exclude him. After all he has no future as a 13 in Ireland given InTheArse's clear superiority in all departments........... except most.

Kiwis Out (except Fat Nick).

Indo claiming Cave will keep the shirt warm for Payne

Kiwis out to feck

[Neil F]

Would like to see Trimble and Earls on the wing again. They have shone before in the same team and both are not just 100% team players but they also have that extra touch of class, along with Bowe, which some of the other Irish wingers are missing. Zebo, despite his efforts v Toulon, still has to prove he actually wants to play the game and not just score the odd try. No question about McFadden's commitment but he lacks the x-factor but Iike him as I like all good honest players.

Hopefully the Irish management won't be f-cking Cave around like Ulster did moving him to 12 to accomodate a full back at 13. Himself and Henshaw need to battle it out for the 13 jersey. Marshall should be 12 and if necessary at any point Sexton can go there or even McFadden. Felix Jones isn't good enough against top level Rabo opposition. Not sure what he is doing there. Zebo can over 15, even though I still have plenty of doubts about his attitude but not his ability.

Shan, as I think you know, I'm not on the "let's bash Keith Earls" train that a number on this board are (or at least were until the "let's bash Simon Zebo" train rolled into Platform 2, anyway). I also confess that you'll see Earls a lot more than I do, and will probably watch him in a different way but... Being a 100% team player is not something I've ever associated with Earls. 100% commitment, sure; a big of the X-factor, sure. But not being a team player seems to have been the biggest drawback of Earls' career in my opinion - I've never seen him act like he's part of a team. Whether this is a belief in his own capacity or a genuine limitation of either his rugby-playing mind or his technical passing ability, I'm not sure... Earls, to me, feels a lot like the whole Scotland team. Sure they can break the line but once they do, they have no bloody idea what to do afterwards. Earls' natural response in such situations seems to be to keep running away from support until he runs out of options.

I will not write Earls off - many, even some on this forum, had written Trimble off and look what he came back with. Of the options available, Earls probably has to start and he hope he proves me wrong. I always felt Earls had a huge amount to contribute to Ireland and I'd love to see him start realising the potential he had. Maybe this tour is a perfect chance to see the team-player you moot. I hope we do see that but I fear that it'll be more of the same from Earls.

[rumncoke]

Trimble always had a rugby brain he was a player who (Earls and others) was played out of position at school because he could be effective for his school but when going to the professional level had to find the skills to play their natural position


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[Neil F]

Rum, I disagree - Trimble was an athlete, purely and simply. He took a long time to learn to play rugby. Given that neither he, nor Ulster, seemed to know whether he was a winger or a centre until he was approaching his mid-20s didn't help him a whole lot. He was trying to learn to be one type of rugby player one season and another kind of rugby player the next season for, maybe, his first five years as a professional. That doesn't mean that the innate rugby ability to be a top-class winger was always there. It wasn't. Trimble had to learn how to be a rugby player like a lot of kids in Ireland do, largely for exactly the reasons you mention. Earls does too but hasn't (insofar as I've seen) made the demonstrable progress that other "athletes" like Bowe or Trimble have. Earls is also younger than both, though, so whether he can / will remains to be seen. Given his innate abilities, I certainly hope he does. Given his age, though, time is running out. I predict a big season for Earls coming up.

[Shan]

Shan, as I think you know, I'm not on the "let's bash Keith Earls" train that a number on this board are (or at least were until the "let's bash Simon Zebo" train rolled into Platform 2, anyway). I also confess that you'll see Earls a lot more than I do, and will probably watch him in a different way but... Being a 100% team player is not something I've ever associated with Earls. 100% commitment, sure; a big of the X-factor, sure. But not being a team player seems to have been the biggest drawback of Earls' career in my opinion - I've never seen him act like he's part of a team. Whether this is a belief in his own capacity or a genuine limitation of either his rugby-playing mind or his technical passing ability, I'm not sure... Earls, to me, feels a lot like the whole Scotland team. Sure they can break the line but once they do, they have no bloody idea what to do afterwards. Earls' natural response in such situations seems to be to keep running away from support until he runs out of options.

I will not write Earls off - many, even some on this forum, had written Trimble off and look what he came back with. Of the options available, Earls probably has to start and he hope he proves me wrong. I always felt Earls had a huge amount to contribute to Ireland and I'd love to see him start realising the potential he had. Maybe this tour is a perfect chance to see the team-player you moot. I hope we do see that but I fear that it'll be more of the same from Earls.

Hi Neil- When I said 100% team players I meant 100% committed. Earls shows this in defence as much as anybody in the game and so does Trimble. Both look for work all the time and it is very rare anybody(I am only talking about those who actually know what they are looking at such as your good self) could level a charge against either for not putting everything they've got into a performance.

That Earls falls short sometimes in terms of his offensive play can be put down to a few factors, desperation to drive on his team when they are struggling to make the breakthrough, unacceptably poor coaching, unacceptable support runs from his team mates and sometimes just poor decision making or whiteline fever from Earls himself. He is nowhere near perfect and I have no desire to paint him as near that, which I'm sure you know anyway. However when I see Earls lining up at least I know that while he may make some errors and run up some blind alleys he won't go missing in the game and he won't shirk any required and sometimes mammoth defensive work which unfortuntely cannot always be said of everybody.

I do think what Earls needs more than anything is an extended and injury-free run in his best position and some direction from a good coaching team.

The actual perfect situation for me would be if we could somehow fit all of Bowe, Trimble and Earls on the same team but with all only playing on the wing. They are the three best wingers in Ireland in terms of the full package. Oh and I know we can only play two wingers at a time. What a pity.

[Shan]

Outside chance of Darren Cave paying in the tests against Argentina. Henshaw has a damaged hand and with no other 13 on tour it would appear Cave might get the nod.

However seasoned Cave watchers will still be imagining several permutations that could yet be used to exclude him. After all he has no future as a 13 in Ireland given InTheArse's clear superiority in all departments........... except most.

Kiwis Out (except Fat Nick).

He needs to be given his chance now. If he isn't it will be an opportunity wasted. There's no downside here. If he shines he puts up his hand as the man for the next year including the RWC. If he doesn't we are no worse off. There's only 3 viable options at 13 for 2014-2015, Cave, Henshaw and Darcy. Darcy is the fall back option if the others prove to be non-runners at this stage. We already know he can step in there and do the job if we need him.

[Russ]

Outside chance of Darren Cave paying in the tests against Argentina. Henshaw has a damaged hand and with no other 13 on tour it would appear Cave might get the nod.

However seasoned Cave watchers will still be imagining several permutations that could yet be used to exclude him. After all he has no future as a 13 in Ireland given InTheArse's clear superiority in all departments........... except most.

Kiwis Out (except Fat Nick).

He needs to be given his chance now. If he isn't it will be an opportunity wasted. There's no downside here. If he shines he puts up his hand as the man for the next year including the RWC. If he doesn't we are no worse off. There's only 3 viable options at 13 for 2014-2015, Cave, Henshaw and Darcy. Darcy is the fall back option if the others prove to be non-runners at this stage. We already know he can step in there and do the job if we need him.

Brennan is no longer a viable option in international rugby

He had a swansong this year, but has been dire since 08

[Shan]

Crozier is no longer a viable option in international rugby

He had a swansong this year, but has been dire since 08

Nonsense. He is still the best 12 in Ireland and by a clear margin both at club level and international level. That may change next year if Marshall pushes on after his season of stagnation this year....but more likely it could change if young Olding gets back to playing regularly.