The UAFC

I may be a bit naive in the understanding of forward play, but I am a bit bemused at the concentration on this thread of the limitations of the Ulster forwards. I didn't see that forwards was our weakness over the 80 mins. It was tactics and strategy after the regrettable loss of Cooney.
Our weakness is cover at scrum half in the event of injury and a lack of real class at outhalf. Behind that, we have talent aplenty across the three quarters and full back. Let's give the forwards credit. The loss was not their fault.

justinr73 wrote: ↑Sat May 01, 2021 1:04 pm

Certainly has not been a crap season. 14 wins out of 16 in the league ffs. Loads of away wins. Game time for plenty of young players. Bobby B and Addison coming back after nasty injuries.

Hugely frustrating though cos we could and possibly should have won the games that got away.

We’re clearly a couple of forwards short and Jack’s op may well keep him out until after Christmas. Let’s hope Leo is in the gym right this minute.

Won’t be easy for the lads to pick themselves up after last night. Stu looked gutted.

Give them a break and we can all come back in September.

When I said it had been a crap season- I meant form the point of view of games slipping away, that we should have won and going so well in the pro 14 to not even get a semi final. The previous seasons under Dan have been an upward curve, this season we seemed to stall, not unexpected- but hopefully a pause not a plateau.

It's been a very good season for bringing through younger players, despite the restrictive nature of the competitions this year. Izzy, Hume, McIlroy, McCann, Moore all saw good game time with Doak, Reid, Moxham and Sexton getting blooded too. We need these lads to get more game time still along with a few others like Rea jr, Tom Stewart and I wonder if Allison has recovered from injury?
I think there is a hell of a lot of talent there- it needs further development and the coaches need to evolve a bit too- we need to iron out those moments when games get away from us. No silverware this year but hopefully the experience gained from this year with the young guys will get us going places in the upcoming seasons.
I am looking forward to seeing the young guys get a chance in the remaining few games of the rainbow cup- not worried about winning anything I just want to see some the lads take the chance and step up.

Agreed.

Plenty to look forward to.

Bobbievee wrote: ↑Sun May 02, 2021 12:19 am I may be a bit naive in the understanding of forward play, but I am a bit bemused at the concentration on this thread of the limitations of the Ulster forwards. I didn't see that forwards was our weakness over the 80 mins. It was tactics and strategy after the regrettable loss of Cooney.
Our weakness is cover at scrum half in the event of injury and a lack of real class at outhalf. Behind that, we have talent aplenty across the three quarters and full back. Let's give the forwards credit. The loss was not their fault.

100% this

Disappointment inevitably brings a round of hand wringing and blame apportionment. The game changer was the halftime team talk from Leicester management. They upped their game and we failed to keep up.

I think Ulster maybe underestimated Leicester, us being 8th in our league looks like it should have been easy, the detail was that we have been losing to sides by being the architects of our own downfall with giving away more penalties than anyone else, for the most part we fixed that in this game. One yellow is quite good for us lately lol.

Wrong

tigerburnie wrote: ↑Sun May 02, 2021 7:18 pm I think Ulster maybe underestimated Leicester, us being 8th in our league looks like it should have been easy, the detail was that we have been losing to sides by being the architects of our own downfall with giving away more penalties than anyone else, for the most part we fixed that in this game. One yellow is quite good for us lately lol.

Better side won

True

Snipe Watson wrote: ↑Sun May 02, 2021 10:37 pm

tigerburnie wrote: ↑Sun May 02, 2021 7:18 pm I think Ulster maybe underestimated Leicester, us being 8th in our league looks like it should have been easy, the detail was that we have been losing to sides by being the architects of our own downfall with giving away more penalties than anyone else, for the most part we fixed that in this game. One yellow is quite good for us lately lol.

Better side on the day - correction, in the second half, won

Fixed

As an aside has anyone seen the stats from the game?

There is a few I’d be interested in knowing.

Leic breakdown speed was 4.3 secs on ave 1st half (if I remember the stat correctly, UR was 2.5?) How much quicker was Leic in the 2nd?
What were the number of turn overs won by UR at the breakdown in the 2nd half? Or in the game overall for that matter.

Clearly the forwards are coached well. Lineout/maul, latching when carrying and attention to footwork pre contact to get over the gainline as much as possible. The issue for me is....have they reached their ceiling as a group?

Did Mathewson over kick?....if the carrying is not effective, if the breakdown is slow, He would have been under orders not to be driven back by fast line speed, & or turned over in our own half - so we kicked. Coetzee, Williams, Wannenberg, gets you over the gainline in the tight, they also get the occasional breakdown pen, or slow the oppo down. We lack the physicality in the pack to change the momentum of a game against a top side. That was my point - yes maybe we shot outrselves in the foot re tactics, but we are in my mind several physical forwards short. We’ll find out soon enough next season playing saffer sides.
There are now clearly covid budget constraints, but I think things are getting tougher for Dan McF, not easier.

Talking of stats - loved the little misprint in the Tiger’s e-programme for the match which listed Ulster top try scorer as David Trimble.

It should of course have read Baron Trimble of Lisnagarvey!

Some stats from UR website. After being so dominant, Austin Healy said it best in the second half: "they've stopped playing" following kick after kick.

It is a pity those stats aren't shown in relation to the two halves of the match.

The other information not disclosed is the amount and location of possession per half.

My feeling was that Ulster were penalised more in the second half than the first. In the first half Ulster were penalised in their own half but may have been penalised more ofter in the leicester half in the second. (giving leicester 6 points from penalties)

The effect being Ulster were seldom in the leicester half, in possession, for two reasons Alby box kicking away possession and leicester being able to kick penalties into the Ulster half.

This swing meant Ulster seldom put pressure on the Leicester line from inside the 22 and the fact that Ulster's only try in the second half was the result of a long solo break by Timoney.

And while the penalty count appears even I may be wrong but I think most of the Penalties awarded to leicester came in the second half and most of Ulster's in the first although Billy Burns over cooking one without finding touch didn't improve Ulster's chances.

On reflection, I feel the big turning point was the Cooney incident. I'm entirely satisfied in my own mind that Nadolo should have been shown a red card. As we hear so often, intention has nothing to do with it - it's the outcome that matters. He kept his arm away from his body and hit/collided with JC's head with a straight arm. I seriously doubt that it was a deliberate act but it was at least careless and the result was clear. He should have gone and that would have made a difference to the match, for sure.
Having said that, there's no doubt that our game fell away in the last half hour or so and Leicester improved considerably. Half backs are a pivotal part of the game, that's certain. I also felt that our leadership was signally less evident in the second half.