Fibber Joe Must go

[againstthehead]

We ALL miss the obvious! Come crunch time no matter WHO coaches Ireland the same result crops up! Argentina fully deserved to win today as they played good rugby and played it with great passion. Argentina have benefited massively from playing against the Southern Hemispheres finest and quite frankly the six nations doesn't even come close. JS did his best with what was available but do you HONESTLY think a different Irish line up would have faired better? Argentina stuffed us today and could have won by more. The IRFU need to send a working party to NZ for a couple of years then report back.

Thanks Christ, someone states the bleedin obvious...

[Russ]

We ALL miss the obvious! Come crunch time no matter WHO coaches Ireland the same result crops up! Argentina fully deserved to win today as they played good rugby and played it with great passion. Argentina have benefited massively from playing against the Southern Hemispheres finest and quite frankly the six nations doesn't even come close. JS did his best with what was available but do you HONESTLY think a different Irish line up would have faired better? Argentina stuffed us today and could have won by more. The IRFU need to send a working party to NZ for a couple of years then report back.

There needs to be a complete reorganisation of how kids are taught rugby Nicky and you know it

[Wingnut]

Don't it always seem to go - you don't know what you've got till it's gone

Great words, great song

POC, POM, JS, SOB, JP gone, and missed beyond reason. Ulster and Leinsters' performances during the World Cup prove that Ireland had run out of players once the first 25 of the 31 man RWC squad was picked !!

Joe must stay, and must help bring in non old boy provincial coaches to properly identify and develop young players. If not, that could be our last QF for quite some time.

[Beattiespastie]

Wing nut...great post ... Agree completely.

[bazzaj]

We ALL miss the obvious! Come crunch time no matter WHO coaches Ireland the same result crops up! Argentina fully deserved to win today as they played good rugby and played it with great passion. Argentina have benefited massively from playing against the Southern Hemispheres finest and quite frankly the six nations doesn't even come close. JS did his best with what was available but do you HONESTLY think a different Irish line up would have faired better? Argentina stuffed us today and could have won by more. The IRFU need to send a working party to NZ for a couple of years then report back.

Thanks Christ, someone states the bleedin obvious...

I think that put Payne, Sexton, POM, POC and particularly SOB in there we would have fared better.
Of course we would.
Whether we would have won or not I don't know.

[bazzaj]

Let me put it another way.
If we got it back to 23-20 as we did, with those players I mentioned above in the team I would have backed us to win
We have always known that to have any chance in this world cup we needed our key players fit.
That didn't happen and we are out against a terrific side.
No shock there.

Wales showed that matter what injuries you sustain if you keep a competitive back row you have half a chance with the importance of the breakdown.
We lost 2/3rds of ours.

[againstthehead]

We ALL miss the obvious! Come crunch time no matter WHO coaches Ireland the same result crops up! Argentina fully deserved to win today as they played good rugby and played it with great passion. Argentina have benefited massively from playing against the Southern Hemispheres finest and quite frankly the six nations doesn't even come close. JS did his best with what was available but do you HONESTLY think a different Irish line up would have faired better? Argentina stuffed us today and could have won by more. The IRFU need to send a working party to NZ for a couple of years then report back.

There needs to be a complete reorganisation of how kids are taught rugby Nicky and you know it

Kids in NZ are playing touch all summer from now to March from the age of 5. Once they play competitive they go into weight grades so the wee guys can develop skills whilst the big lumps smash eachother up. There are leagues for all abilities and all ages with various trophies etc. Think the schools usually have a 1st and 2nd XV but the rest is weight-graded so to fek with the age.

But it's more than organisation, rugby is a religion here. You'll see kids coming home from school bouncing rugby balls off the ground as they walk along. The island families will be playing touch on the beach with the mums sidestepping the dads... It's just everywhere. To match that, Ireland would need to ban all other sports and convert all the GAA and orange halls into rugby clubs...

[bazzaj]

In England you see tremendous skills development encouraged at youth levels.
Even in the premiership there has been some terrific stuff played this season then the whole thing is lost on the coaching set up.
They go size and power obsessed at the top level and end up with a rugby league convert and a saffer in the midfield and a donkey of a captain.
And lest we forget the last game they played in the world cup contained Nick Easter and Haskell.

The coaches aren't making the most of whats available.
The likes of Christain Wade or Elliott Daley don't get a sniff because they don't have the turning circle of the QE2.
The Aussies don't seem to struggle at world cups yet this is their 3/4th most popular sport with a relatively small playing pool.
For me the systems are in place but its the coaches in the NH nations that abuse them.

[Big Smoke Culchie]

We ALL miss the obvious! Come crunch time no matter WHO coaches Ireland the same result crops up! Argentina fully deserved to win today as they played good rugby and played it with great passion. Argentina have benefited massively from playing against the Southern Hemispheres finest and quite frankly the six nations doesn't even come close. JS did his best with what was available but do you HONESTLY think a different Irish line up would have faired better? Argentina stuffed us today and could have won by more. The IRFU need to send a working party to NZ for a couple of years then report back.

There needs to be a complete reorganisation of how kids are taught rugby Nicky and you know it

Agree completely, and it needs to include the way the Ulster junior teams are coached. Currently they're a shambles.

[againstthehead]

I think you're right to a degree but when you see the off-loading skills of NZ 1-15 then I think you'd be hard pushed to see many premiership props doing that.

Watch out when Argentina have their Super Rugby team. These guys are only getting better.

[bazzaj]

I think you're right to a degree but when you see the off-loading skills of NZ 1-15 then I think you'd be hard pushed to see many premiership props doing that.

Watch out when Argentina have their Super Rugby team. These guys are only getting better.

New Zealand are culturally geared towards rugby as their no1 sport but yet they don`t win all the time.
Argentina and Australia are examples of teams with limited resources and poor relations to other sports in their countries.
They are getting the best out of their top players by introducing a coaching set up they all buy into with a game plan to match
I believe its them we should be looking to emulate in the Northern Hemishere not necessarily New Zealand as rugby will never be our no1 sport`s with the debatable exception of Wales.

We aren`t that far away from these sides in a one off up for it game as Wales and Scotland have shown along with ourselves.
We need to be beating them regularly which was Clive Woodward`s mantra when he took over the England job.
Its always strange that we come up just short and its always an under pressure mistake or decision that costs us whereas the SH sides thrive on it.

Foley never looked liked missing after a Scottish line out abberation.
Vermuleun is allowed to offload when a Wesh winger gets a rush off blood and comes in on him.
Liam Williams gives away a pen try in SA to gift them a win
Sexton misses in front of the posts and the All blacks go up the other and score.
Time and time again this happens to NH sides to the extent that`s its inevitable and not a coincidence.

T-CUP; Thinking calmly under pressure-They do and we don`t- simples.

[FRB]

I remember Zinzan Brooke speaking at Quins years ago and he was asked by a schoolboy about weight training. Brooke told him to work on his skills - even just by messing around with a ball in your garden or the park because anyone can be faster, fitter and stronger in 6 months but skills take time. Look at some of the weekly training plans for our schools - there are weights, weights & more weights. The NH seem obsessed by size and power.

Argentina have benefitted from introduction to the Championship but they also employed Graham Henry as a consultant and he advised them to work on individual skills. Argentina heeded the advice.

[bazzaj]

Spot on FRB

[BaggyTrousers]

All marvellously wise after the event chaps, I'd have been mildly impressed if you'd joined me in lauding Argentina 2 or 3 weeks back when I made all of the points raised by you Johnny come latelies. Great to see you all congratulating each other on the quality of your hindsight.

Being wise after the event is not a skill, gets you no kudos & is just a little naff.

You've all been helped.

Incidentally Pastie, if you genuinely believe that the result would have been the same had Ireland had O'Connell, Sexton, O'Mahony & O'Brien, never mind Payne who was missed, you know next to nothing.

As it was, had Quiff kicked the penalty to equalise, then underpowered as Ireland were, especially in the backrow, I believe the Argies may have wilted, it was a crucial miss, typically Irish in it's way. This takes no account of Garces cowardice and I will be interested to see if the citing officer has any interest in the flying headbutt on Rory Best. Probably not , why rock the boat?

Finally what a great man Rory Best is, after the match he gave an interview as level-headed and PC as I have heard, no bleating, he takes things such as Herrera did and cheapshot merchants like Hartley throw at him & remains scrupulously within the laws, preferring to allow refs & citing officers to exact retribution. He ships some punishment and battles on.

[Beattiespastie]

Another Windbaggy post about how silly we all are compared to him