Other PROxx 17/18

[solidarity]

Just watched Kings v Leinster. A few comments.
It's nothing to do with traveling, Kings are just as poor at home as they are away.
Leinster without their internationals aren't any better than we are without ours.
Whitehouse isn't much of a ref.
Either the Kings fans don't give a tinkers about their team or they don't give a tinkers about this competition. Took me back to my trips to Embra a few years ago.

And a serious question... the Kings had more black players than white in the starting 15. Is this a measure of increasing interest in the game among the black population or something to do with the SA government's legislation?

[Cap'n Grumpy]

Edinburgh. Sh1te as usual.

What are the odds someone on the Treviso forum is posting: Nothing to see here, Treviso beat a crap team we expected them to beat?

Does Shan speak Italiano?

[Neill_M]

Cheetahs won a tryfest v Zebre 54-39


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[Dave]

Good that they won

[Russ]

Cheetahs to beat leinster next week

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[Neill_M]

Cheetahs to beat leinster next week

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Interesting to see if they play their best side in the Pro 14 or the Currie Cup

[damianmcr]

Hopefully they go for the Pro14 and give Leinster a good game.

[Cockatrice]

Just watched Kings v Leinster. A few comments.
It's nothing to do with traveling, Kings are just as poor at home as they are away.
Leinster without their internationals aren't any better than we are without ours.
Whitehouse isn't much of a ref.
Either the Kings fans don't give a tinkers about their team or they don't give a tinkers about this competition. Took me back to my trips to Embra a few years ago.

And a serious question... the Kings had more black players than white in the starting 15. Is this a measure of increasing interest in the game among the black population or something to do with the SA government's legislation?

Dangerous comment but one I noticed previously In Wales... think quota's.

The Lions are shyte some 34 players down from last year and the Cheetahs aren't much better even at home although they have the height advantage... This experiment could well fail before it gets off the ground because its doesn't seem to have caught the public imagination (see Cheetahs making their first home game FREE to all) there SA will not want their teams stuffed week in week out by us and the sponsors will walk if there is no interest..

[BaggyTrousers]

It needs to be remembered that Cheetahs and Kings have already had most of a full season. Kings have been decimated since it became obvious they were being dumped from SR, the Cheetahs not so much for they are a more established organisation whilst some thought the Kings could shut down. They lost possibly their best player, Mapimpi to Cheetahs ironically, and of course, we took Van der Merve but they have lost many other players.

Noises from SA were that Kings will need a year or two to build whereas they have higher hopes for the Cheetahs, if limited this year. Cheetahs too have that high above sea-level aspect which doubtless will catch a few better teams out.

I wouldn't be surprised if Kings finish bottom but I expect the Cheetahs to do better and when the Currie Cup is out of the way they will not be trying to spread their resources so much.

Solids, I didn't see much of the game but young Whitehouse I think is better than you credit him. I suppose refs have stinkers at times just like Ulster in Treviso.

[Cockatrice]

One slight concern I have baggy is that.... I am sure somewhere it was suggested that this was needed to develop and improve the league... that will not happen if they end up bottom and everybody's whipping boys year in year out... although like you I feel the Cheetahs will get a few points playing at altitude...

Would the US or Canada have been a better place to start.. well not the same time zone and the Avia match yesterday didn't set the world alight. So Germany has been muted not sure why (except ignorently there are obvious sponsors) instead of those other places in the EU that do have some interest and a national team to develop.. Georgia, Russia, Spain and Portugal.

On the face of it none of those bring any quality to the table my fear simply that what little quality the SA's have brought is so far nonexistant and likely to go down the pan if something doesn't change quick. Maybe of course the new league wasn't sold on improving the quality and was something else the problem is I can't remember what..

I think I heard Quinnell make mention that he thinks some lessee known SA's players may use those teams as a shop window to getting better contracts up north.. he has a point although even the twice Lion former captain of Wales wasn't even the best rugby player in his own family or for that matter probably not even the second best and that doesn't include his other brother.

[UlsterNo9]

This may sound contradicting, as much as I want the SA teams to succeed in the long term I am glad they have gotten a few gubbings in their opening few games. Imagine if the two teams had of proceeded to hand out hidings at will themselves having rocked up with little preparation and depleted playing squads. Our competition would have looked very mickey mouse.

The saffers will get better. Cheetahs could challenge next year if they recruit well with another half dozen players. I believe they have a few players in the SA squad that are currently unavailable due to Rugby Championship commitments.

There is a general consensus although unsure how well founded that the Kings and Cheetahs will be able to attract players from the other South African franchises as their contracts run out there. The reason being that the traveling conditions and the lack of timezone hopping will be a selling point. The opportunity for a young lad to travel to Europe all expenses paid will also attract some.

They have committed to six years, we are two months into a 72 month journey. Hard to not form an opinion at this stage but I'm trying to reserve judgement.

[Neill_M]

Round 4 Fixtures below, All UK KO Times:

Fri 22 Sep

7:00pm Cheetahs v Sky Sports Action
7:35pm v Dragons BBC2NI
7:35pm Glasgow v BBC2S/TG4
7:35pm Treviso v Ospreys BBC2W

Sat 23 Sep

3:15pm Westies v Caaaaaardiff Sky Sports Action
6:35pm v Zebre
7:35pm Scaaaaarlets v Edinburgh S4C

Unsure whether the Cheetahs will play the 1s/2s/3s v D4, don't think it will change the result. They shipped 39 points and 5 tries at home v Zebre. BP Win for the Mexicans.

Should be a BP win for Ulster regardless of whether the likes of champagne Gavin Henson and Sideshow Bob play.

It's a shame the Glasgow Munster game is on at the same time as the Ulster game - should be game of the weekend. They aren't the best of buddies, a bit of edge there. Close game with Munster edging it in last 5 mins etc....

Ospreys have been average so far and this trip to Italy could be tricky. If they restore some of their Lions to the team, should be ok.

Connacht and Cardiff both average so far, the Westies should win this one - close game maybe.

Southern Kings and Zebre both looking for that 1st win. Home side to get it. Interesting to see what sort of crowd they get this week...........

Finally Scaaaarlets to get a BP win over Edinburgh.

[Shan]

Handy one for Ulster. Anything less than a BPW is unacceptable unless Ulster always want to just make up the numbers.

Munster need to be beating Glasgow but acceptable to do so without a BP.

[UlsterNo9]

Well that's the end of the South African teams debate.... the great one has spoken

Pro14: Addition of South African teams positive - Johann Muller

Ex-Ulster captain Johann Muller says the addition of South African teams Southern Kings and Cheetahs to form the Pro14 is " a very positive move".

The former Super 14 clubs have struggled in the early stages of the revamped tournament although the Cheetahs beat Zebre 54-39 on Saturday.

"They were the two weakest teams in Super Rugby and it will be very tough for them to settle in," said Muller.

"They've come up against some quality sides but it's a long season ahead."

"These players have been playing rugby non-stop for the last six months and now they are straight into the Pro14. It will take them time to bed in.

"All in all, it's a very positive move from a South African rugby point of view and also from Europe's point of view," the Springbok told BBC Radio Ulster's Sportsound programme.

Muller added that he believed the South African teams will help to "create a real spectacle" once they become accustomed to the tournament and the conditions they are playing in.

"It's been a tough couple of weeks for them but it will be interesting for the European teams to play in the heat of the South African summer, especially in Bloemfontein, where temperatures can reach in the region of 35 degrees.

"It's a fantastic move and there is a real buzz in South Africa looking forward to the challenges ahead. There's a real public interest in the tournament and it's brilliant to see Pro14 rugby on television every week in South Africa."

The former second row was thrilled with the way Ulster fought back to defeat the Scarlets at the Kingspan Stadium on Friday night and believes one of his compatriots, the currently injured Jean Deysel, will make a huge impact with the Irish province.

"I played with Jean quite a bit - he has had a tough ride with injuries but there is no doubting the quality of the man - he's an outstanding, outstanding rugby player, a beast of man, as hard as a rock, and he'll be a real favourite with Ulster supporters," argued the former Ulster skipper.

Meanwhile, Muller admitted that South Africa's record 57-0 defea at the hands of New Zealand in the Rugby Championship on Saturday, bringing to an end the Springboks' six-game unbeaten run, was "incredibly tough to watch".

"Last year was a horrible year for South African rugby but this year they have shown some real progress and fight.

"We are not where we want to be yet and this is where the boys have to show some pride in the jersey and stand up and be counted.

"If they can get positive results in their next two matches against Australia and New Zealand, then they can go into the autumn international series in Europe with some confidence, but if they lose those two it will be incredibly tough heading to Europe."

Ireland host South Africa in the first of their autumn internationals on 11 November.

[Cap'n Grumpy]

Well that's the end of the South African teams debate.... the great one has spoken

He's not German then.