The UAFC

World would be a better place if the catholic church wasn't there
(Before I get hit with the whataboutery, all churches and religions fecking off would make the world a better place, though I respect their right to their religion)

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Good decision on the whataboutery caveat young Russ, whataboutery has currency, its just the Romans are world leaders in Paedo production. You'd have to think the wholly unnatural celibacy thing has a lot to answer for. I mean I'm not celibate and I've never fu@ked a kid, though I don't suppose the correlation holds true in all cases.

BaggyTrousers wrote:Good decision on the whataboutery caveat young Russ, whataboutery has currency, its just the Romans are world leaders in Paedo production. You'd have to think the wholly unnatural celibacy thing has a lot to answer for. I mean I'm not celibate and I've never fu@ked a kid, though I don't suppose the correlation holds true in all cases.

The celibacy thing may not be responsible per se but the lifestyle probably attracted those who were running away from or were hiding from something,. The whole set up is f*cking bonkers when you think about it.

Russ wrote:World would be a better place if the catholic church wasn't there
(Before I get hit with the whataboutery, all churches and religions fecking off would make the world a better place, though I respect their right to their religion)

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+1

So if we are erasing the church, will we erase the majority of schools and hospitals in Ireland (and very many other countries) too. Will we un-discover vast amounts of scientific learning, delete the works of art and demolish much of our historic architecture.

I'm not suggesting that we would be back living in a pre renaissance, feudal society, but neither do I believe that the power/wealth gathered by the churches over the centuries would have simply have been obtained by the individual people. There are many examples of the church with its protected status holding back the excesses of the ruling classes to the churches' benefit, but also to the benefit of the oppressed.

Their record on "scientific learning" is somewhat flawed. Copernicus and Galileo to name a couple of examples.

big mervyn wrote:Their record on "scientific learning" is somewhat flawed. Copernicus and Galileo to name a couple of examples.

When you fund the research, you get to decide if/when/how to publish; ask big pharma. If that means suppressing things for a few centuries while you realign your corporate position, then so be it. The ideas may be slowed in their development, but the discoveries aren't unlearned.

The world is better off for the work done under the umbrella of the major churches. Many individuals are worse off for the actions of relatively small elements within the churches.

"My pilgrimage to Knock also allows me to address a warm greeting to the beloved people of Northern Ireland," he said.

Feck - Ya can see here that he hasn't had many dealings with you lot.

I don't care for the ramblings of the head of some made-up Warren Gatland organisation.

BR wrote:

big mervyn wrote:Their record on "scientific learning" is somewhat flawed. Copernicus and Galileo to name a couple of examples.

When you fund the research, you get to decide if/when/how to publish; ask big pharma. If that means suppressing things for a few centuries while you realign your corporate position, then so be it. The ideas may be slowed in their development, but the discoveries aren't unlearned.

The world is better off for the work done under the umbrella of the major churches. Many individuals are worse off for the actions of relatively small elements within the churches.

It'll not surprise you to know that there is an enormous flaw in that argument, to wit, the "relatively small elements" are almost always those with the greatest authority.
And of course, let's never forget.............. Pope PiusBastard is known as Hitler's pope. The Romans try to spin it that Old Piusbastard was attempting to gain liberty for Jews, Gypos & fruits in concentration camps, awaiting the ultimate solution, a date in the gas chamber but only a cocksuckingmoron would believe that.

After meeting Papa Piusbastard Hitler went on a night out with Mussolini.......

I believe he told Neville Chamberlain something similar.

The churches (and the majority of sovereign states) have all had some pretty dodgy bedfellows through the years. Sometimes it is justified as bring for the greater good; sometimes it is for the good of their own people; often it looks like it is for the good of the leaders themselves. Those things are not always mutually exclusive, and when you have an administration theoretically stretching over centuries, then it is easier to argue that a particular decision, although selfish at a point in time, strengthens the organisation for the long game.

BR wrote:I believe he told Neville Chamberlain something similar.

The churches (and the majority of sovereign states) have all had some pretty dodgy bedfellows through the years. Sometimes it is justified as bring for the greater good; sometimes it is for the good of their own people; often it looks like it is for the good of the leaders themselves. Those things are not always mutually exclusive, and when you have an administration theoretically stretching over centuries, then it is easier to argue that a particular decision, although selfish at a point in time, strengthens the organisation for the long game.

Aye. It definitely turned out to be worth it all in the long run

500,000 tkts made available for Phoenix Park. Less than 130,000 showed up (not sure if ST holders who couldn't be ar$ed are included in that figure). FOPF

big mervyn wrote:

BR wrote:I believe he told Neville Chamberlain something similar.

The churches (and the majority of sovereign states) have all had some pretty dodgy bedfellows through the years. Sometimes it is justified as bring for the greater good; sometimes it is for the good of their own people; often it looks like it is for the good of the leaders themselves. Those things are not always mutually exclusive, and when you have an administration theoretically stretching over centuries, then it is easier to argue that a particular decision, although selfish at a point in time, strengthens the organisation for the long game.

Aye. It definitely turned out to be worth it all in the long run

500,000 tkts made available for Phoenix Park. Less than 130,000 showed up (not sure if ST holders who couldn't be ar$ed are included in that figure). FOPF

There were were more at Thomond Park in 78.

The garda estimate of less than 130,000 says it all about the collapse in religious belief all over Ireland.
I realised, like most people of my generation, several decades ago that all religions are bunkum and there is no afterlife or reincarnation or whatever you want.

I have settled into being a non practising athiest for a long time but I must say this. Despite the crimes of all the churches and the misery they visited on people, they still provided a basic structure of values and even spirituality that has been good for many people. Christmas is a legend but it's still nice to have it. Western culture will be hard to understand in the future in the absence of any reference points or historical context.

To be fair, there's an element of second album syndrome at play too.