Jerome Garces

[mikerob]

As an aside, do people remember Ulster beating Bath in Bath back in 2010 when Danny Grewcock was red carded? The ref that day? Yup, Monsieur Jerome Garces...

[Deraless]

http://m.bbc.co.uk/sport/rugby-union/26 ... m=facebook

[Eggs]

mikerob, you may be correct about the level of injury, I am not a referee and don't know the rules well enough to be certain, but I believe that it is the act that is penalised, and not the result. In much the way that a legal tackle may result in injury, but isn't an offence. A missed punch is probably the exception, although if seen I would think would probably at the very least still result in a penalty

[daveysemtex]

if a scrum goes down and a prop goes off with a neck injury is the other prop red carded?

If the ref believes that dangerous play by the other prop has caused the injury, then yes, he could be red carded.

The point being that the degree of injury is irrelevant tho !

exactly. are we being led to a situation where defensive players have free reign under high balls on the off chance they maybe Injured in the process of catching it? payne was trying to catch a great up and under, the subsequent events were a result of the process. if the rule is you can't compete for the ball then fair enough, but it isn't. I would reference the paul occonel/dave Kearney incident- accidents happen

[mikerob]

The act is penalised, but the ref essentially has the options of a penalty, penalty + caution, penalty + YC or penalty + RC and the outcome of the act may be an influence on this.

[Cockatrice]

For the record I have for sometime thought that we don't play the refs particularly well!! We could be smarter.

[Eggs]

http://m.bbc.co.uk/sport/rugby-union/26 ... m=facebook

Didn't need to see that, Johann literally brought a tear to my eyes.

Fair play to Mccall. Humph, time to have a think perhaps...

[mikerob]

if a scrum goes down and a prop goes off with a neck injury is the other prop red carded?

If the ref believes that dangerous play by the other prop has caused the injury, then yes, he could be red carded.

The point being that the degree of injury is irrelevant tho !

exactly. are we being led to a situation where defensive players have free reign under high balls on the off chance they maybe Injured in the process of catching it? payne was trying to catch a great up and under, the subsequent events were a result of the process. if the rule is you can't compete for the ball then fair enough, but it isn't. I would reference the paul occonel/dave Kearney incident- accidents happen

A player in the air essentially does have free reign and the player on the ground has the duty of care. *If* Payne had jumped for the ball and the players collided in the air then a RC or maybe even a penalty would have been unlikely.

The POC/DK incident isn't the best one to refer to - there was more than a suspicion it was a bit of a whitewash to ensure POC was available for the HEC.

[Wee Woman]

http://m.bbc.co.uk/sport/rugby-union/26 ... m=facebook

Didn't need to see that, Johann literally brought a tear to my eyes.

Fair play to Mccall. Humph, time to have a think perhaps...

Absolutely fair play to Mark McCall, classy response.

Some of his players could take a few lessons in that from him.

[Dave]

Is there any precedent for this type of decision? I get the feeling that Garces is making a name for himself. Did it really warrant a red card?

[Eggs]

He is clearly trigger happy, the Hogg card was also harsh, tho imho not as bad as this one

[Cockatrice]

http://m.bbc.co.uk/sport/rugby-union/26 ... m=facebook

Didn't need to see that, Johann literally brought a tear to my eyes.

Fair play to Mccall. Humph, time to have a think perhaps...

In what way a rethink.... Is McCall not also Director of Rugby would he be prepared to step back into a coach only role under Hump.

As for coaching rethink I think the loss last night may indeed prompt Hump to think again about next year if he hasn't already!!!

[cbusbyni]

Looking at this from a refs POV (which I am), I struggled at the time to see how this was a red and have seen nothing to change my mind after watching it live/ on the screens at Ravenhill. I think Payne was clumsy and that it was probably a YC at very worst.

In saying that, I'm obviously very one- eyed but did have a look at a great refs forum (members from all over the world) who seem to have reached the consensus that it was a harsh call.

What I will confirm, is that refs at my level (and I assume that it carries up into pro rugby) are told NOT to referee intent, we only focus on actions and outcomes.

http://www.rugbyrefs.com/showthread.php ... -vs-Ulster

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[Eggs]

Looking at this from a refs POV (which I am), I struggled at the time to see how this was a red and have seen nothing to change my mind after watching it live/ on the screens at Ravenhill. I think Payne was clumsy and that it was probably a YC at very worst.

In saying that, I'm obviously very one- eyed but did have a look at a great refs forum (members from all over the world) who seem to have reached the consensus that it was a harsh call.

What I will confirm, is that refs at my level (and I assume that it carries up into pro rugby) are told NOT to referee intent, we only focus on actions and outcomes.

http://www.rugbyrefs.com/showthread.php ... -vs-Ulster

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Interesting, so by outcome do you mean that if that sap of a sarrie had got back to his feet, the expectation would be that the offence would be considered less severe? Genuine question

[Ithryn]

http://www.mobypicture.com/user/mickobr ... w/16745988
Same incident in super 15 recently, ref decides as both players are going for the ball it's a penalty