Marshall and Wilson cited

[weenotion]

Just to put things into perspective (on this lovely thread which you all must be so proud of), Nick Williams' illegal ruck clearout has ended Aaron Shingler's season.

Sorry to hear that but strong rucking is not 'illegal'.
Wish Aaron a speedy recovery.

[rorybestsbigbaldnoggin]

Did anyone notice Billy Vunipola sticking his elbow into Sexton's throat on Sunday? Don't think he has been cited for it though.

Or Dan Cole's eyes lighting up as he saw Cian Healy, before he deliberately headbutted him out of the way.

[ScarletsMun]

Firstly, welcome to the board.

Thanks

Secondly, I'm genuinely sorry to hear that. I think Aaron Shingler is a decent player and I never like to hear of any player injured. Could you elaborate a bit on the illegal clearout.

It's a clear case of a shoulder charge to the neck / top of the shoulder area. Williams doesn't bind with his arms at all. They are floating about in a token gesture - so he is in effect leading with his head and shoulders. Very dangerous for which we have seen bans before (Botha, Jake Ball etc).

Thirdly, the lovely thread remark, what rugby board connected with any team wouldn't debate or discuss a citing? Have you any particular complaint? If so, report the post.

I'll have a think, cheers.

Fourthly, the time indexes are given. Did you, when you watched the game, think "omg! That must be cited surely!"? One was actually reviewed by the referee and dismissed. The other seems far from deliberate, intentional and looks accidental to me. What do you think?

One was reviewed and dismissed because coincidentally the BBC NI Feed stopped just before the incident (twice). I thought at the time the Williams and Barclay one both deserved cards. Possibly red. (according to the laws)

Lastly, were you surprised there'd been two citings arising out of that match? I was. Didn't seem to have been a dirty or particularly intense affair.

NO. the Williams and Wilson incidents both deserve approx 2 week bans. There's not much in the Marshall one in my opinion.

[Snipe Watson]

Did anyone notice Billy Vunipola sticking his elbow into Sexton's throat on Sunday? Don't think he has been cited for it though.

Or Dan Cole's eyes lighting up as he saw Cian Healy, before he deliberately headbutted him out of the way.

I don't buy this deliberate headbutting story. I don't think Cole did it and I don't think Bastareau did it either. If you are running with your shoulders dipped, your head will always be the leading part of your body. Does that make it leading with the head? Technically yes, but try running shoulders down without your head forward. There is no offence.

[ScarletsMun]

Did anyone notice Billy Vunipola sticking his elbow into Sexton's throat on Sunday? Don't think he has been cited for it though.

Or Dan Cole's eyes lighting up as he saw Cian Healy, before he deliberately headbutted him out of the way.

Healy is the expert there (this went completely unpunished in terms of a citing by the way)

[Cornerfleg]

Just conducting a straw poll here ... on a scale from 0 - 10 how would you rate your personal pride in this thread ...

I'd give it a 2 to be honest ... when compared to say wee fleg learning to ride his bike or getting a good report form school ... I doubt I'd make space on my fridge to hang a copy of it.

I'd be really interested to locate the person or indeed people to whom Brer ScarletsMun was addressing his comments to, so speak up if you are overcome with illustrious gladness at the very existence of such a sublimely rewarding thread on a message board.

[BaggyTrousers]

Are the hearings today?

It's 4 march 1972 according to wales

In the name of God why would they revisit the day of their ultimate cowardice? March 1972 when they were due in Dublin but were "too scared".

The day the Welsh surpassed the English in terms of the opprobrium of the Irish nation.

[pwrmoore]

Just to put things into perspective (on this lovely thread which you all must be so proud of), Nick Williams' illegal ruck clearout has ended Aaron Shingler's season.

Scarletsmun - exactly what was illegal about the clear-out? I haven't watched it back since being at the match but it happened right in front of me and it looked as if Nick went in - admittedly very hard - but with standard clearout technique? Are we now to judge all actions by their unfortunate outcomes rather than by their legality?

[Cornerfleg]

Fourthly, the time indexes are given. Did you, when you watched the game, think "omg! That must be cited surely!"? One was actually reviewed by the referee and dismissed. The other seems far from deliberate, intentional and looks accidental to me. What do you think?

One was reviewed and dismissed because coincidentally the BBC NI Feed stopped just before the incident (twice). I thought at the time the Williams and Barclay one both deserved cards. Possibly red. (according to the laws)
.

Did anyone else just go .... "For the love of all that's holy ... WTF ... get yer tin foil hats on people, they're coming" It was all going so well up until yer man went "BBC NI ... j'accuse"

[Snipe Watson]

Firstly, welcome to the board.

Thanks

Secondly, I'm genuinely sorry to hear that. I think Aaron Shingler is a decent player and I never like to hear of any player injured. Could you elaborate a bit on the illegal clearout.

It's a clear case of a shoulder charge to the neck / top of the shoulder area. Williams doesn't bind with his arms at all. They are floating about in a token gesture - so he is in effect leading with his head and shoulders. Very dangerous for which we have seen bans before (Botha, Jake Ball etc).

Thirdly, the lovely thread remark, what rugby board connected with any team wouldn't debate or discuss a citing? Have you any particular complaint? If so, report the post.

I'll have a think, cheers.

Fourthly, the time indexes are given. Did you, when you watched the game, think "omg! That must be cited surely!"? One was actually reviewed by the referee and dismissed. The other seems far from deliberate, intentional and looks accidental to me. What do you think?

One was reviewed and dismissed because coincidentally the BBC NI Feed stopped just before the incident (twice). I thought at the time the Williams and Barclay one both deserved cards. Possibly red. (according to the laws)

Lastly, were you surprised there'd been two citings arising out of that match? I was. Didn't seem to have been a dirty or particularly intense affair.

NO. the Williams and Wilson incidents both deserve approx 2 week bans. There's not much in the Marshall one in my opinion.

That my friend is a very subjective view. I disagree with you on both citings. Marshall's case is tricky as he appears to leave a trailing leg.
There is no evidence at all in the Wilson case that he was doing anything other than trying to knock the ball loose as Barclay didn't have a firm hold of it. There is no clenched fist either which if it was a punch would be evident. There was also a complete lack of any motivation at the time. I can't recall a punch in a match that was not a reaction to something else.
The Williams clearout was certainly vigorous, but so is just about any ruck clearout in any game. Do you really think if there was anything in the Williams clearout this citing commissioner would have let it slide?

[ScarletsMun]

Of course the TMO could have repeatedly asked for the footage to be played until we saw the whole Wilson on Barclay incident. But he's from 23 miles down the road isn't he, so "nothing to see here" please.

[ScarletsMun]

That my friend is a very subjective view. I disagree with you on both citings. Marshall's case is tricky as he appears to leave a trailing leg.
There is no evidence at all in the Wilson case that he was doing anything other than trying to knock the ball loose as Barclay didn't have a firm hold of it. There is no clenched fist either which if it was a punch would be evident. There was also a complete lack of any motivation at the time. I can't recall a punch in a match that was not a reaction to something else.

It was reckless. Dislodging a ball with a swinging arm is reckless. If you do it you risk a swinging arm to a players nose. Which is what happened.

Do you really think if there was anything in the Williams clearout this citing commissioner would have let it slide?

So the citing officer is now 100% in the Williams decision, but not in the citings against Ulster players? When the cap fits eh?

[Cornerfleg]

It's a conspiracy Snipe ... we're wrong he's right ... most debates I've had with Welsh fans over the years seem to start and finish with this Universall maxim.

[ScarletsMun]

What's the difference?



https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DN8U-6w ... P#t=47m0s5

Arms loose. In with head / neck into opponents shoulder / neck resulting in serious injury.

[rorybestsbigbaldnoggin]

Does anyone have a time in the match of this Williams wreckin incident?


Also re Healy/Cole - Healy is no saint and would deserve a citing for that gif of ScarletMan's, I wouldn't be surprised if Cole had the stamping of 2 years ago on his mind on Sunday.

Snipe - to me it looks like Cole closes his eyes and changes the movement of his head before contact, which would indicate deliberate action. Same way there is one particular angle of Pape kneeing Heaslip where you can see he changes the angle and height of his run to make the contact.