The Trouble with Munster

[aarons]

real kick-em-when-they're-down-piece from Brendan Fanning in today's Independent. like the tone of it but a brave newspaper would have printed it last Sunday morning, or perhaps a year ago.

http://www.independent.ie/sport/rugby/t ... 07487.html

[cjp]

Good piece in the Times by O'Reilly saying how Leinster have drip fed their youngsters into the Magners league getting experience here and there whereas Munster haven't and the Schools aren't developing the players to a decent level, No Munster players in the Ireland Under 20 squad over Christmas and only 2 in the Irish Schools squad. Goes onto say how well are set up is working with the sub academy fitness guys working with elite players when at school still.

Also talk of Nagle leaving for Northampton.

[Snipe Watson]

You only have to look at the humiliation of the Munster & Connacht team at the New Lansdowne opening. The future is not bright. Irish rugby has always had these cycles.

[Rule13b]

Similar article in the Sunday times.

[backawaygoonahead]

real kick-em-when-they're-down-piece from Brendan Fanning in today's Independent. like the tone of it but a brave newspaper would have printed it last Sunday morning, or perhaps a year ago.

http://www.independent.ie/sport/rugby/t ... 07487.html

When reading the article I thought there were well made points but also had the feeling that here is a man who has stored up a bagful of animosity with Munster over the years , just waiting for his time to come.

Spotted a post on Munsterfans which I rarely look at which debunks a few of Fanning's charges, particularly like the bit about the "noisy gowl on the tannoy":

The good old Chairman of the Rugby Writers of Ireland Brendan Fanning, had a real cut off Munster in the S Indo today. Among some relevant points about getting in experts for an outside assessment of ourselves (as Les Dames are currently doing), he accuses Munster of being 'in love' with our 'success to the point of arrogance'.

He continues 'for much of the last decade they (Munster) only had to look across their north-eastern border to feel better about themselves. More than that, for Munster fans Leinster was an organisation to be ridiculed. Now the shoe is on the other foot, and it's wedged so far up Munster's back passage as to be crippling.'

He continues: ' On any criterion you choose, Leinster either match or outscore their rivals. At the base level, they (Leinster) make friends and influence more people than you would imagine in the way they accomodate mini rugby at half-time in their home games'. (Obviously Fanning hasn't been at too many games in Thomond or Musgrave lately).

It continues: 'At the top end they (Les Dames) think about ways to promote their brand, whether it is through access to media or the charity work of their players'. (Donncha obviously wasting his time with UNICEF)

The final straw for me was when he says of Thomond: 'The match day experience (at Thomond) is dismal. If you're not satisfied with having your eardrums burst by the loudest PA in the northern hemisphere, featuring a loop with the 'Fields' and the 'Fight' then you're out of luck'.

What a complete and utter gobsh*te. Unlike the RDS or Aviva we don't need to pipe out snippets of Dexy's Midnight Runners everytime we score (to try to make an atmosphere), the singing at Thomond is not piped/looped we have a choir unlike our D4 colleagues, and we don't have a noisy gowl on the tannoy telling us to cheer for 'YOUR LEINSTER TEAM'

Fair play to Leinster, they are playing excellent rugby and I wish them well in the HEC, but Fanning seems to have many bottled up issues with Munster over the years which he is vomiting out now. Maybe ROG or the Bul snubbed him in Novebmer at his annual dinner http://www.munsterrugby.ie/news/8240.php

Anway, Brendan, if you are reading this, here's one final word of advice for you: if you don't scratch it and leave it alone it should go away by itself.

The Sindo is a rag anyway and should have a red top instead of posing like a serious paper.


__________________

• The dodo died. Then Dodi died, Di died and Dando died... Dido must be sh*tting herself

Think he might be right about Dido too

[darkside lightside]

I'm not sure saying 'I don't agree' a couple of times counts as debunking. Fanning's piece is a little aggressive in tone, that's for sure, but there was a lot that rang true, and I think Munster may have a tough enough couple of seasons coming up (have so since the start of this season).

I thought they were pretty awful on Sat - it reminded me of us when we're bad - errors, misfiring set-piece, general aimlessness and lack of direction. Some very poor performances as well, scarily from a lot of Irish squad members... Half-backs were cack, ROG's defensive display was an absolute embarrassment; Earls competing with Murphy to be the worst back on the pitch (I want Earls to come good so much but he has yet to deliver on the hype..); Hayes and MOD, well, you know..; Wallace sad to say starting to look his age..

As I was saying recently on another thread, the output of their academy has not been good enough; their squad is huge, but padded with a lot of sub-standard players who don't get much serious gametime; the players that you do hear good things about (likes of TOD, POM, Nagle, Dave Ryan, Sherry) never seem to get a serious look-in..

[lovesthehardground]

I'm not sure saying 'I don't agree' a couple of times counts as debunking. Fanning's piece is a little aggressive in tone, that's for sure, but there was a lot that rang true, and I think Munster may have a tough enough couple of seasons coming up (have so since the start of this season).

I thought they were pretty awful on Sat - it reminded me of us when we're bad - errors, misfiring set-piece, general aimlessness and lack of direction. Some very poor performances as well, scarily from a lot of Irish squad members... Half-backs were cack, ROG's defensive display was an absolute embarrassment; Earls competing with Murphy to be the worst back on the pitch (I want Earls to come good so much but he has yet to deliver on the hype..); Hayes and MOD, well, you know..; Wallace sad to say starting to look his age..

As I was saying recently on another thread, the output of their academy has not been good enough; their squad is huge, but padded with a lot of sub-standard players who don't get much serious gametime; the players that you do hear good things about (likes of TOD, POM, Nagle, Dave Ryan, Sherry) never seem to get a serious look-in..

Really tempted to say "WHO CARES"?

Lets remember as bad as they are - they chinned us twice this year and would probably beat uis again tomorrow if we were to play them. I get no pleasure in deriding them. They are a good side but are out of form.

The most worrying aspect of this is that Deccie will still have the usual suspects on against Italy irrespective of how old they are or how they're playing at the moment. That can't be good news for the 6 Nations and more importantly for the RWC later in the year.

[darkside lightside]

Really tempted to say "WHO CARES"?

Lets remember as bad as they are - they chinned us twice this year and would probably beat uis again tomorrow if we were to play them. I get no pleasure in deriding them. They are a good side but are out of form.

The most worrying aspect of this is that Deccie will still have the usual suspects on against Italy irrespective of how old they are or how they're playing at the moment. That can't be good news for the 6 Nations and more importantly for the RWC later in the year.

irish rugby fans should care - if Munster go into limbo for 2-3 years while they try to develop replacements for the raft of retirees to come, it'll inevitably have an impact on the Irish squad. And yes they chinned us twice, but they have yet to play our first XV - and we've seen so far this year that you don't need to lose a load of frontline players for our team to lose its way. My money would be on us, tbh.

What we have though is a chance to step up, and start pulling our weight as a 'big province' after our own lost period. Thanks to McL for steadying the ship and all that, but that is why I believe we need a more experienced head coach, who has coaching experience at the top flight in the SH, France or England to put the pieces together better and take us to the next level.

[Jackie Brown]

I care little about Munster. If selection for the Ireland squad was done on form rather than what part of Ireland you hail from we would have a larger selection than Munster. However the status quo will be kept which is good because less chance of injuries with the HC QF coming up. I feel however the likes of Tuohy, Court, Spence, Trimble, Wallace even D'Arcy deserve a run at a higher level either in the main team or the wolfhounds. It will develop them as players.

We were always told our players weren't good enough because we didn't feature at the later stages of European competition. Now we are, I wonder what the new excuse will be...

[backawaygoonahead]

I'm not sure saying 'I don't agree' a couple of times counts as debunking. Fanning's piece is a little aggressive in tone, that's for sure, but there was a lot that rang true, and I think Munster may have a tough enough couple of seasons coming up (have so since the start of this season).

I thought they were pretty awful on Sat - it reminded me of us when we're bad - errors, misfiring set-piece, general aimlessness and lack of direction. Some very poor performances as well, scarily from a lot of Irish squad members... Half-backs were cack, ROG's defensive display was an absolute embarrassment; Earls competing with Murphy to be the worst back on the pitch (I want Earls to come good so much but he has yet to deliver on the hype..); Hayes and MOD, well, you know..; Wallace sad to say starting to look his age..

As I was saying recently on another thread, the output of their academy has not been good enough; their squad is huge, but padded with a lot of sub-standard players who don't get much serious gametime; the players that you do hear good things about (likes of TOD, POM, Nagle, Dave Ryan, Sherry) never seem to get a serious look-in..

I thought you weren't reading my posts anymore DL ? Anyway, like you I do feel that Fanning had some fair points on the playing issues but felt he padded it out with petty side issues, some untrue to my certain knowledge & the guy on Munsterfans certainly responded well to Fanning's petty nonsense about pre-match at Thomond compared to other provinces. I have been there as a neutral and the atmosphere prematch is vastly superior to the same old rubbish pop songs at Ravenhill before our gowl on the tannoy totally screws up the timing of SUFTU so that it is often finished before the guys appear. I also thought there was a clearly bitter tinge to some of his points - caused by who knows what.

I don't disagree with you either about Saturdays effort - the whole thing had as much atmosphere in the first hour as a wake & only when they when behind did Munster get their dander up and perform & even then they got a bit of good fortune. Disagree about ROG although certainly not about Earls & particularly Murphy who was abysmal. ROG had big bruisers sent at him all afternoon and whilst he didn't shirk the contact he was knocked around a fair bit, that said when push came to shove it was ROG in my opinion who did most to save the game.

I would have hated the shower from LI to have won there - they aren't good enough. They really should change their name to London Spides & Islanders.

[darkside lightside]

I thought you weren't reading my posts anymore DL ?

I 'Willem'-ed you..

(as in 'de-foe'-ed you, not that anyone will have needed that pointed out )

As for Munster, in truth I wouldn't shed too many tears if they went through a lean spell - although I still have some residual feelings for Ireland, despite Kidney's best attempts to drive me to despair and indifference. I know our Munster contributors on here are good guys, but I must say that in all my time watching rugby in Ireland or abroad, the only fans I have ever had a problem with was Munster, like the charmer who refused to serve me in a pub because of my Ulster shirt, or the total nut-job who I thought was going to attack Jamesie and I at the '08 HEC final, or the numpty who argued with me for what felt like hours that people from Ulster couldn't call themselves Irish after the Munster-Quins game at Twickenham - it'd do them all good to spend a few years as the third province, making up the numbers! (interesting as well to see how often Thomond was sold out for bottom- to mid-table clashes...)

That said, who knows - they have been some machine for the last decade, you'd probably be daft to write them off.. but they certainly need a bit of rewiring..