Come gather round people....

[browner]

RUGBY: ORLA BANNON on how rugby is quietly going about breaking down barriers of class up North, and especially where Ulster is concerned, religion

WE HAVE moved on sufficiently to be fairly confident the first all-Ireland Heineken Cup final is being celebrated beyond the homes of the well-heeled in Dublin 4 and the Malone Road.

Rugby is at last breaking down barriers of class, and also, where Ulster is concerned, religion.

No one knows for sure how many people across the North will be standing up for the Ulstermen when the team runs out at Twickenham on Saturday, but there will be plenty.

The fascination for this lies mainly outside the province. People in the North just get on with it. The Ulster rugby team enjoys more cross-community support than ever but no one feels the need to shout about it. Many in the nationalist community may not have made an emotional investment in Ulster rugby yet, but they are quiet well-wishers nonetheless.

The groundswell of support has been built up slowly and quietly.

James McClean’s accusations last week that Windsor Park is a cold house for Catholic players would indicate there is still a long way to go in the North before sport and religion are no longer a high-octane mix. But rugby is different.

Look at the way the game is growing across the nine counties, with Donegal now the area of fastest growth, and things look a lot more encouraging.

“We’re numbers driven to produce more players, to produce more supporters, to produce more revenue,” says Ulster Rugby chief executive Shane Logan, “and we are frankly blind to divide or to whether people are Protestant or Catholic.

“We are a neutral space and we will continue to be that.

“We’re in an historically fortunate place in that we’re in neutral territory and we can square a lot of the circles that maybe others might struggle with.

“I think there has been tremendous change and one of the openers of change was during the reconstruction of the national rugby stadium, now the Aviva, when the Irish rugby team was able to play in Croke Park.

“I think a lot of walls came tumbling down at that point. We live in significantly changing times, and we wouldn’t see a divide.”

A survey conducted recently by an external body not affiliated with Ulster Rugby concluded that 20-25 per cent of the supporters who attend Ravenhill regularly are from the nationalist community. And the numbers are growing.

Head down to Ravenhill for the big Friday night experience and you will often spot GAA intercounty players enjoying a quiet pint and the professional game.

Ravenhill has been inundated with messages of support from across Ulster, including phone calls and letters from GAA administrators and county boards in the build-up to Saturday’s game.

Sinn Féin MLA Barry McElduff is a Tyrone GAA fanatic but he is also a member of an All Party Group at Stormont on Ulster Rugby. Fellow Sinn Féin assembly member Conor Murphy and the SDLP’s Conall McDevitt are also members of the group, which meets four times a year.

“I’d be supportive of Ulster Rugby in their efforts,” McElduff says. “I have been to Ravenhill three or four times and found everyone very welcoming.

“When I walk around the ground people either pass no remarks on me or they welcome you. Some would say ‘good to see you’, you might even meet some GAA members who would smile and say ‘I didn’t expect to see you here’.

“Ulster would enjoy universal support, I do believe that, and that would include people who are committed GAA supporters.

“It’s still the exception rather than the rule that GAA supporters have been to Ravenhill but there is a level of interest.

“The fact that rugby is organised on an All-Ireland basis, soccer is the odd one out.

“It inspires a little bit of confidence when you see Ulster playing Leinster, or Ballymena playing in Limerick.”

Ulster have a healthy number of Catholic players in their 52-man professional ranks, four of five of whom will be involved in Saturday’s match-day squad.

There is still huge potential for rugby to tap into previously no-go areas and if Ulster want to achieve their target of growing the playing numbers from 27,000 to 42,000 within the next eight to 10 years, then they need to get moving.

Filling a new 18,000-seater stadium will be a challenge too and the supporters will need to come from all sections of the community. However, Ulster do not intend adopting an aggressive recruitment drive.

“We are not going to target a number from one possible community or another,” insists Shane Logan. “We will do our business, we will recruit the best potential players, providing they’re Irish qualified, and we will not try to distort ourselves to favour what some might perceive as one community or another.

“That would take us out of neutral space and we believe we are in neutral space. Let people judge us on our actions and not on any form of discrimination.”

McElduff believes, however, there is still one bugbear for nationalists.

“There is still an issue with national anthems,” he says. “It is noticeable the Ulster contingent tend not to sing the national anthem when they are playing for Ireland. That is a personal observation but I have heard many people remark on the same thing.”

Perhaps the flying of flags, for so long an illustration of divisions in the North, can be an unexpected source of unity.

McElduff recalls on his first visit to Ravenhill posing for a photograph outside the ground with his match ticket in his hand and a Union flag over his head.

There are no Union flags to be seen now. Any that were there were removed without fuss.

Ryan Feeney is head of community development, strategy and public affairs with the GAA’s Ulster Council.

“I went to Ravenhill this year for the first time and I noticed the flags the supporters have is the exact same Ulster flag that we fly at our grounds.

“Everyone has an affinity with that flag. I remember seeing one flag there from the west Belfast Ulster supporters’ club – that is surely a sign of the times.

“The fact rugby is organised on a nine-county basis and a lot of the skills of the game are similar means people have an affinity with it.

“Obviously we want people to play our game, but we still have a lot of goodwill towards Ulster.

“A lot of rugby is now played in Catholic schools, but I do look forward to the day when GAA is played in controlled state schools.”

Antrim GAA footballer Aodhan Gallagher can’t see that happening yet, however. A former All-Ireland club winner with west Belfast club St Gall’s, he teaches biology at Methodist College, a traditional rugby hotbed.

“Methody is very integrated school now, it has about a 60-40 split (of Protestants and Catholics). There is no GAA in Methody, though some parents are looking for it.

“But it would be hard for any sport to compete with rugby.

“Quite a few of the first XV would have played GAA at some time. The captain of our team which won the Schools Cup this year was Rory Winters, whose father Kevin won a MacRory Cup and Hogan Cup with St Colman’s, Newry.

“I have been to Ravenhill quite a few times and I went to the semi-final in Dublin. Personally, I don’t have a problem with it.

“There is a strong Methody link to the Ulster team too with the likes of Craig Gilroy, who played GAA out in Holywood in his younger days, Paddy Jackson, Paul Marshall and Adam Macklin, who are all former pupils. I’ve taught quite a few of them.”

Former Ulster and Ireland player Willie Anderson sees change happening.

“I come from south Derry, which is a hinterland of Gaelic football, but the interest of people of all persuasions, particularly from the Gaelic side, is unbelievable,” he says. “They are interested in the Brian McLaughlin situation, in Ulster getting to the final.

“The game has got a kick-start. It is great to see kids running about south Derry wearing Ulster rugby tops.

“I drive past Newbridge every day, which is real GAA country, and I quite often see a rugby development officer taking rugby. Rugby is getting into areas it never got into before.

“The game has moved on, it is a global game now. More people are interested in rugby. Success for Ulster can only help that situation.”

Derry GAA senior football manager John Brennan played rugby for Rainey Old Boys and Ballymena.

“I went to Rainey, a rugby school, and that was the only underage coaching I got,” he says.

“Rainey always had mixed teams and Magherafelt was always renowned for having very good relations even through the troubles.

“A lot of people have got wiser now.

“Nowadays anyone who is good enough can play rugby and play professional sport. Class or creed doesn’t matter.”

Ulster says: Rugby and the GAA getting along famously

AODHAN GALLAGHER

Antrim senior footballer

Realistically, Ulster Rugby is not a provincial team but the local professional club team.

I don’t have an Ulster shirt, I have an allegiance to Munster, but I don’t personally see a problem with anybody going to watch Ulster.

When it’s two Irish provinces playing, maybe there will be some people up here going for Leinster, but if it was, say, Ulster v Clermont or Leicester, everyone would support Ulster.

BARRY McELDUFF

Sinn Féin MLA

What I have found from people within Ulster Rugby is that they are professional, they’re serious and they’re sportsmen first and foremost.

I do detect a respect for the GAA inside Ulster Rugby.

Each sport is protective of its own and wants to promote its own but all efforts are to be encouraged in the cross-fertilisation of sport because it has the potential to break down barriers even further.

WILLIE ANDERSON

Former Ulster and Ireland player

The days of bringing in players from all over the world will come to an end because the finance is not there. We have to try and sell the game to everybody.

It needs to be ongoing and improved because filling an 18,000 stadium won’t happen unless you make it happen.

The game has moved on but with success we have to build on it.

Look at the Leinster model, it didn’t happen overnight, but the game has exploded in Leinster now.

JOHN BRENNAN

Derry senior football manager

The GAA had to play catch up to rugby.

Things like having meals after matches, teams having weekends away, it’s all changing for the betterment of the players.

The way the GAA is structured with under-8s and under-10s is akin to rugby.

The two sports do work hand in hand.

SHANE LOGAN

Ulster Rugby CEO

We are nine counties, not six. The fastest growing area of our game is in Donegal and the second fastest growing area of our game is in youth rugby, outside of any schools.

We don’t see the border in Northern Ireland. We’re organised at provincial level and the aspiration is to play for the Irish team. We are keen to share expertise with the GAA; we use GAA coaches to help our boys catch high balls. There is a lot we can learn from the GAA about growing the community game.

[aarons]

I'm mostly pleased to see that article but I do feel a little patronised...

And as for the Antrim gaa star with "an allegiance to munster"! Andy ward needs to have a word! Nationalists who support Leinster or Munster drive me nuts...

[Mac]

Think the Times is attempting (unsuccessfully) to counter balance their
faux pas by another one of their own from a few days back....the
"Politics of Rugby" found elsewhere on this forum.

Sorry, doesn't wash for me.

[Big-al]

Realistically, Ulster Rugby is not a provincial team but the local professional club team.

I don’t have an Ulster shirt, I have an allegiance to Munster, but I don’t personally see a problem with anybody going to watch Ulster.

When it’s two Irish provinces playing, maybe there will be some people up here going for Leinster, but if it was, say, Ulster v Clermont or Leicester, everyone would support Ulster.

[Scranner]

I thought it was an excellent article and don't feel patronised in the least. I think this was the telling paragraph. "The fascination for this lies mainly outside the province. People in the North just get on with it. The Ulster rugby team enjoys more cross-community support than ever but no one feels the need to shout about it. Many in the nationalist community may not have made an emotional investment in Ulster rugby yet, but they are quiet well-wishers nonetheless."

As for the Antrim GAA star, there's no accounting for folk. Maybe he has family from Munster.

[mikerob]

I hesitate to just focus on the comments of the Antrim GAA man in what is a positive article with a lot of good stuff in it, but I wonder what he would think if a fellow country Antrim man said, "I wouldn't support Antrim, I'd cheer for Kerry" (or whoever)

Positioning Ulster as a professional team rather than a provincial team is a cop-out to justify why he has jumped on the Munster bandwagon.

[The Ulsterian]

The old " anthems and flegs" are never too far away.

Quote
"McElduff believes, however, there is still one bugbear for nationalists.

“There is still an issue with national anthems,” he says. “It is noticeable the Ulster contingent tend not to sing the national anthem when they are playing for Ireland. That is a personal observation but I have heard many people remark on the same thing.” "

Does he not notice that some players belt out the 'Soldier's Song' but don't sing Ireland's Call, the Irish Rugby anthem, or that some don't sing either.

Quote
"Perhaps the flying of flags, for so long an illustration of divisions in the North, can be an unexpected source of unity.

McElduff recalls on his first visit to Ravenhill posing for a photograph outside the ground with his match ticket in his hand and a Union flag over his head.

There are no Union flags to be seen now. Any that were there were removed without fuss. "

Perhaps Mr. McElduff doesn't notice the Irish tricolor flying at the GAA grounds or perhaps it's acceptable.

Double standards I would say.


Quote

"AODHAN GALLAGHER

Antrim senior footballer

Realistically, Ulster Rugby is not a provincial team but the local professional club team. ????????

I don’t have an Ulster shirt, I have an allegiance to Munster, but I don’t personally see a problem with anybody going to watch Ulster.

When it’s two Irish provinces playing, maybe there will be some people up here going for Leinster, but if it was, say, Ulster v Clermont or Leicester, everyone would support Ulster." Perhaps the interviewer should have asked him who he would be supporting this Saturday, or can we conclude from what he has said that it will be Leinster.

SUFTUM

[Cornerfleg]

I take it Mr Gallagher would be delighted Cork to muller Antrim in an All Ireland?

[BR]

I'm mostly pleased to see that article but I do feel a little patronised...

And as for the Antrim gaa star with "an allegiance to munster"! Andy ward needs to have a word! Nationalists who support Leinster or Munster drive me nuts...

Another demonstartion of Dublin's obsession with 'those strange people from the North, with their funny religious ideas and political loyalties' - although to be fair maybe this one is starting to put the record straight (we 'just get on with it').

On the subject of an Antrim GAA man having allegience to Munster - not a poblem. You don't know the individual I assume, Aarons. One of the irregulars, with whom I travel around Europe supporting Ulster, would be a Munster supporter first. His dad is a Munster man, his Mum's from Ulster.

[aarons]

On the subject of an Antrim GAA man having allegience to Munster - not a poblem. You don't know the individual I assume, Aarons. One of the irregulars, with whom I travel around Europe supporting Ulster, would be a Munster supporter first. His dad is a Munster man, his Mum's from Ulster.

i suppose that's fair but my reasoning was this - if he's prepared to play his football for Antrim...

[darkside lightside]

Another demonstartion of Dublin's obsession with 'those strange people from the North, with their funny religious ideas and political loyalties' - although to be fair maybe this one is starting to put the record straight (we 'just get on with it').

Yes I agree, actually I read this this morning and thought it was a very decent piece I must say.

There's no point in picking up on a few needling remarks from shinners / GAA guys etc, that's kind of par for the course - I'm quite sure if some article about unionists attending GAA matches, they'd be sure to stick in a couple of similar comments - but the main thing for me is that there is a kind of face-value acceptance by everybody really of the 'neutrality', and even invited to speak about potential dividing lines, there was no kind of visceral reaction.

Glad to see Logan saying the right things - and I'm not doubting his noble intentions, but forget all the nice touchy-feely reasons, it's absolutely the right pragmatic, commercial thing to do - money's money, and good players are good players...

[Cornerfleg]

Well said DL.

[Dublin4]

The Times could easily have written about Leinster by substituting class for religion/nationality.
Along the lines of "isn't it wonderful that working class kids in Tallaght are being encouraged to play rugby rather than burn out cars by a government sponsored scheme (which has happened) and that they occasionally have contact with their "social betters" in south Dublin wjen they play the odd match, and that the glamour of Leinster is impressing backwoodspeople in the south Wicklow mountains to set up a rugby club for their youth" (which has actually happened) etc.
The positive is that rugby is broadening out on this island. Rugby was never self consciously elitist. it just didn't bother propagating the game. Professionalism is changing all of that - for the better.

[BaggyTrousers]

Another demonstartion of Dublin's obsession with 'those strange people from the North, with their funny religious ideas and political loyalties' - although to be fair maybe this one is starting to put the record straight (we 'just get on with it').

Yes I agree, actually I read this this morning and thought it was a very decent piece I must say.

There's no point in picking up on a few needling remarks from shinners / GAA guys etc, that's kind of par for the course - I'm quite sure if some article about unionists attending GAA matches, they'd be sure to stick in a couple of similar comments - but the main thing for me is that there is a kind of face-value acceptance by everybody really of the 'neutrality', and even invited to speak about potential dividing lines, there was no kind of visceral reaction.

Glad to see Logan saying the right things - and I'm not doubting his noble intentions, but forget all the nice touchy-feely reasons, it's absolutely the right pragmatic, commercial thing to do - money's money, and good players are good players...

Now this is a bit of a novelty - good post DL, well said, I agree 100%.

NI politicians always qualify any support that could be conceived as a sop to "the other side" so must qualify their comments to some extent & it cuts both ways. Pathetic but very understandable given the number of morons who have the vote in NI.

To those who feel patronised, are you related to Gerard Rice? Some can't help themselves going to extreme lengths to be offended.

The most encouraging thing about the whole piece is the survey saying 20%ish at Ravenhill are from the nationalist with a small n persuasion. For me, that is a very pleasant surprise.

[AyeYerMa]

Another demonstartion of Dublin's obsession with 'those strange people from the North, with their funny religious ideas and political loyalties' - although to be fair maybe this one is starting to put the record straight (we 'just get on with it').

The rest of the world's obsession to be fair, when they can be arsed.

O would some Power the gift to give us
To see ourselves as others see us!