The Incident

[big mervyn]

What would you have done?

[Cap'n Grumpy]

Had the situation been reversed and it was a sarries player on an Ulster player, I have no doubt I would have been calling for yellow, even if I thought it was accidental.

To be consistent, I would therefore have to say I would have awarded a penalty and shown yellow.

I would not have expected red if the situation was reversed and would not have complained if only a penalty had been given in the reverse situation. Therefore red was harsh against Jared.

[richardt84]

Voted yellow because, for me, the damage in the incident was caused by Payne slipping. He has his eyes on the ball throughout and as he tries to slow himself down at the last minute his left foot giving away carries all his momentum into Goode.

[big mervyn]

Voted yellow because, for me, the damage in the incident was caused by Payne slipping. He has his eyes on the ball throughout and as he tries to slow himself down at the last minute his left foot giving away carries all his momentum into Goode.

Yep. I don't think the slip was given enough consideration. His foot went completely from under him.

[Cornerfleg]

Very level headed and honest replies. While a case can be argued a yellow was just.

However if taking out in the air is a red. Robbie being hit in the line out should have been a card.

No one wants to see an injury to anyone but as of yet you don't get sent off for a big tackle or hurting some one in a clear out at ruck (legally) then the resultant injury should have no bearing on the incident.

[Snipe Watson]

I thought the red was harsh, but then I didn't know the law.
Now, I'd go red, then yellow.
So yellow.

[OneMore]

I said last night I thought it was the right decision. As is the popular proposal, to think if it was the other way round, and the ref had given Goode a yellow card, I would have been furious that the ref had bottled it only because it was early in the game.

It's dangerous. And it is right to say the action should be judged rather than the outcome, but the outcome can be useful to determine how dangerous the action was. Payne hit him so hard he flipped round and his head bounced off the ground he did not care enough for Goode's welfare. I'm all for "up and at 'em", "get stuck into them" rugby, but not at the cost of the safety of the opponent.

[KevDP4L]

Definitely not a red. Could see justification for any of the other 3 options though, so I went in between and said penalty because it was a bit clumsy. You see similar incidents given as knock ons all the time in Super Rugby though.

[Cornerfleg]

Latching is illegal and extremely dangerous. Clearing out at rucks could cause as much damage. Ffs bringing a scrum down has paralysed players - when was the last red card you saw for hinging a scrum.

I'm all for players safety but Im also for it all over the pitch!

[Cap'n Grumpy]

Definitely not a red. Could see justification for any of the other 3 options though, so I went in between and said penalty because it was a bit clumsy. You see similar incidents given as knock ons all the time in Super Rugby though.

THIS ONEwas restarted with a scrum

[Cornerfleg]

Feck - I hope that is shown at Paynes hearing. Inconsistency kills matches!

[King Ding]

It's dangerous. And it is right to say the action should be judged rather than the outcome, but the outcome can be useful to determine how dangerous the action was. Payne hit him so hard he flipped round and his head bounced off the ground he did not care enough for Goode's welfare. I'm all for "up and at 'em", "get stuck into them" rugby, but not at the cost of the safety of the opponent.

The outcome shouldn't come in to the argument and Garces clearly took consideration of it when he justified the red to Muller and Payne by saying the player landed on his head.

Taking it to the extreme, say Payne had thundered in, clattered Goode with his arm in a sort of clothesline to the leg, rather than hitting him with his face, hit him so had the Goode went full 360 and landed on his feet (I'd say he'd probably fall over a bit since he's not an Olympic gymnast, but landed with little impact pretty much upright), is the OK? No it's a red card for sure. End result means sweet FA, it's the act that matter. Leinster match today Dave Kearny and Armitage competing in the air, if one fell and god forbid broke his neck you couldn't penalise either of them because there was nothing wrong with the act that caused the injury.

[Cornerfleg]

Honestly if Payne had have jumped - I doubt anything would have happened. Feet on the ground killed him!!!

[Cap'n Grumpy]

Honestly if Payne had have jumped - I doubt anything would have happened. Feet on the ground killed him!!!

It's hard to jump when you've just slipped.

[Cornerfleg]

I know I'm just saying if he had have been in the air it would have been totally different