Bad News Day for the DUPers.

[Russ]

I see the new Shinners mantra is "Joint First Minister". They're some value..........

It is beyond me why the DUP don't tell Michelle O'Neill to stand down while the RHI inquiry is going on as her department was promoting it and she was involved in meetings about it despite what she is saying in the press.

It's very simple. The DUP have been totally out played by SF at every turn. They seem to have been arrogantly content in their unshakeable position of strength, right up until it vanished last week. Unionists have no idea how to play the long game.

You'll also find that the DUP wont mind Tory rule for a while

Sent from my SM-G930F using Tapatalk

[promenader 2]

I see the new Shinners mantra is "Joint First Minister". They're some value..........

It is beyond me why the DUP don't tell Michelle O'Neill to stand down while the RHI inquiry is going on as her department was promoting it and she was involved in meetings about it despite what she is saying in the press.

Simple enough, that one. Arlene was the Minister in charge of the department which designed and launched the scheme and which removed the cap on payments which were left in place in the GB model. Arlene was also in charge of the DUP at the time her SPADS were, allegedly, running around trying to keep the scheme open. Ergo, she has questions to answer and should stand aside until she's absolved of blame. This would be the expected behaviour in most other liberal democracies. This is Norn Iron, however, so if one of 'our ones' has to stand aside, then obviously one of themmuns should stand aside too.

[againstthehead]

I see the new Shinners mantra is "Joint First Minister". They're some value..........

It is beyond me why the DUP don't tell Michelle O'Neill to stand down while the RHI inquiry is going on as her department was promoting it and she was involved in meetings about it despite what she is saying in the press.

It's very simple. The DUP have been totally out played by SF at every turn. They seem to have been arrogantly content in their unshakeable position of strength, right up until it vanished last week. Unionists have no idea how to play the long game.

You'll also find that the DUP wont mind Tory rule for a while

Sent from my SM-G930F using Tapatalk

SF will love Tory rule for a while. They are at their most strongest when in the camp of dissent and protest. Jesus, can you imagine them if the Tories imposed cuts, brexit etc etc etc..... That scenario is Gerry's wet dream. SF can't govern for tom kite but by heck can they round up a protest. You name it, water charges, gays, brexit, tory cuts they love being the populist voice. Sure remember they were sending gobshites out to Greece in support of the greek gobshites.

DUP need to get back into government and fast. They may need to back down and let Arlene go on gardening leave for a bit. Get SF into government and let them not deliver for another 10 years...

[BaggyTrousers]

I see the new Shinners mantra is "Joint First Minister". They're some value..........

It is beyond me why the DUP don't tell Michelle O'Neill to stand down while the RHI inquiry is going on as her department was promoting it and she was involved in meetings about it despite what she is saying in the press.

Simple enough, that one. Arlene was the Minister in charge of the department which designed and launched the scheme and which removed the cap on payments which were left in place in the GB model. Arlene was also in charge of the DUP at the time her SPADS were, allegedly, running around trying to keep the scheme open. Ergo, she has questions to answer and should stand aside until she's absolved of blame. This would be the expected behaviour in most other liberal democracies. This is Norn Iron, however, so if one of 'our ones' has to stand aside, then obviously one of themmuns should stand aside too.

In fairness Snipe, the Shinners mooted joint FMs long before this election was called. for me it also makes sense since it more accurately reflects how parties must work together. I believe the DUPers poo hooed it on the basis that their sole election strategy revolves around convincing their dull witted voters that only them as the largest party stands between yousins and a United Ireland. Pure nonsense of course. Neither side can do a damned thing without the other.

A United Ireland is inevitable on the numbers game with more catholics being born & the older profile Prods dying out quicker plus the fact that so many now chose to leave, me included though don't call me a prod. In the short term the DUPers would be smarter by playing nice and treat all people with a bit less arrogance for that is exactly what drove many voters either to not vote or to vote for more moderate politics.

Not that I've any great love for Mike Nesbitt, but given he was the only person in the entire cabal of self-serving wide boys & girls to have the temerity to suggest you might actually vote for policies rather than sectarian values, he is a sad loss all things considered, Nice try Mike but the proles weren't buying this year.

#I'mamoderate,getmeouttahere
#yisarewelcometothisvileweestatelet
#DUPer&Chuckiebastards
#BananaRepublicSepticIsle
#Agenletetedumbasdirtdipshit

[Russ]

I see the new Shinners mantra is "Joint First Minister". They're some value..........

It is beyond me why the DUP don't tell Michelle O'Neill to stand down while the RHI inquiry is going on as her department was promoting it and she was involved in meetings about it despite what she is saying in the press.

It's very simple. The DUP have been totally out played by SF at every turn. They seem to have been arrogantly content in their unshakeable position of strength, right up until it vanished last week. Unionists have no idea how to play the long game.

You'll also find that the DUP wont mind Tory rule for a while

Sent from my SM-G930F using Tapatalk

SF will love Tory rule for a while. They are at their most strongest when in the camp of dissent and protest. Jesus, can you imagine them if the Tories imposed cuts, brexit etc etc etc..... That scenario is Gerry's wet dream. SF can't govern for tom kite but by heck can they round up a protest. You name it, water charges, gays, brexit, tory cuts they love being the populist voice. Sure remember they were sending gobshites out to Greece in support of the greek gobshites.

DUP need to get back into government and fast. They may need to back down and let Arlene go on gardening leave for a bit. Get SF into government and let them not deliver for another 10 years...

You need to think in multiple dimensions
SF and yourself appear to only consider linear actions and reactions

Sent from my SM-G930F using Tapatalk

[caledoniancelt]

I see the new Shinners mantra is "Joint First Minister". They're some value..........

It is beyond me why the DUP don't tell Michelle O'Neill to stand down while the RHI inquiry is going on as her department was promoting it and she was involved in meetings about it despite what she is saying in the press.

Simple enough, that one. Arlene was the Minister in charge of the department which designed and launched the scheme and which removed the cap on payments which were left in place in the GB model. Arlene was also in charge of the DUP at the time her SPADS were, allegedly, running around trying to keep the scheme open. Ergo, she has questions to answer and should stand aside until she's absolved of blame. This would be the expected behaviour in most other liberal democracies. This is Norn Iron, however, so if one of 'our ones' has to stand aside, then obviously one of themmuns should stand aside too.

In fairness Snipe, the Shinners mooted joint FMs long before this election was called. for me it also makes sense since it more accurately reflects how parties must work together. I believe the DUPers poo hooed it on the basis that their sole election strategy revolves around convincing their dull witted voters that only them as the largest party stands between yousins and a United Ireland. Pure nonsense of course. Neither side can do a damned thing without the other.

A United Ireland is inevitable on the numbers game with more catholics being born & the older profile Prods dying out quicker plus the fact that so many now chose to leave, me included though don't call me a prod. In the short term the DUPers would be smarter by playing nice and treat all people with a bit less arrogance for that is exactly what drove many voters either to not vote or to vote for more moderate politics.

Not that I've any great love for Mike Nesbitt, but given he was the only person in the entire cabal of self-serving wide boys & girls to have the temerity to suggest you might actually vote for policies rather than sectarian values, he is a sad loss all things considered, Nice try Mike but the proles weren't buying this year.

#I'mamoderate,getmeouttahere
#yisarewelcometothisvileweestatelet
#DUPer&Chuckiebastards
#BananaRepublicSepticIsle
#Agenletetedumbasdirtdipshit

Well put Baggy. I use to think of myself as a moderate/liberal unionist but now
feel more closely aligned to and voted for Alliance at the last two Assembly
elections and voted remain in the Brexit poll.

I feel that it will take at least another 2 generations before we can escape
from the sectarian Orange/Green camps political stalemate we find ourselves in
but by that time we could already be part of a unified 32 county Republic.

With any luck Drumpf will have caused or started WW3 and there won't be anyone left alive to give a brad pitt.

[Snipe Watson]

I think it is increasingly wrong to make any assumptions about the outcome of a border poll.
Obviously it all depends on what is on offer, but I'm convinced that there are a lot of cultural nationalists who would not want to join a united Ireland. Lumping together the SF and SDLP votes and assuming they would all vote for unification is a bit of a leap. I don't have a particularly high regard for the NI electorate, but they are a bit more sophisticated that that.

If you're talking about a 'New Ireland', that may be a different proposition entirely.
There is a lot about the ROI that is fairly unattractive as a proposition. If there was a radical overhaul of the ROI it could be a more attractive, but as it stands, I wouldn't hold out much hope of a United Ireland any time soon.

[mikerob]

If (and it looks like a big if at the moment...) the Scots vote for independence, that may have a bearing on attitudes to a united Ireland.

At the moment, the United Kingdom is, in reality, Greater England plus some irritating celtic fringes but if the Scots bugger off, that will make it even more apparent.

[promenader 2]

I think it is increasingly wrong to make any assumptions about the outcome of a border poll.
Obviously it all depends on what is on offer, but I'm convinced that there are a lot of cultural nationalists who would not want to join a united Ireland. Lumping together the SF and SDLP votes and assuming they would all vote for unification is a bit of a leap. I don't have a particularly high regard for the NI electorate, but they are a bit more sophisticated that that.

If you're talking about a 'New Ireland', that may be a different proposition entirely.
There is a lot about the ROI that is fairly unattractive as a proposition. If there was a radical overhaul of the ROI it could be a more attractive, but as it stands, I wouldn't hold out much hope of a United Ireland any time soon.

I don't know many northern nationalists who believe that reunification would simply mean the 26 counties annexing the rest of us. Even a lot of the Shinners I talk to speak of the need for new arrangements in the event of a new dispensation, including a new constitution, new flag, anthem etc. Some go further and talk about the possibility of some kind of federal republic, with the north retaining its own parliament and distinct identity, and perhaps some formal link with the UK. What I'm saying is that everything would be up for discussion. The problem is that these kind of discussions are just hot air without the involvement of those from the protestant-unionist-loyalist community and, aside from a few progressive clergymen now and again, that community refuses even to acknowledge that there is a conversation to be had.

[Cap'n Grumpy]

The problem is that these kind of discussions are just hot air without the involvement of those from the protestant-unionist-loyalist community and, aside from a few progressive clergymen now and again, that community refuses even to acknowledge that there is a conversation to be had.

I wonder why that might be?

(I don't really)

[Jackie Brown]

I see the new Shinners mantra is "Joint First Minister". They're some value..........

It is beyond me why the DUP don't tell Michelle O'Neill to stand down while the RHI inquiry is going on as her department was promoting it and she was involved in meetings about it despite what she is saying in the press.

Simple enough, that one. Arlene was the Minister in charge of the department which designed and launched the scheme and which removed the cap on payments which were left in place in the GB model. Arlene was also in charge of the DUP at the time her SPADS were, allegedly, running around trying to keep the scheme open. Ergo, she has questions to answer and should stand aside until she's absolved of blame. This would be the expected behaviour in most other liberal democracies. This is Norn Iron, however, so if one of 'our ones' has to stand aside, then obviously one of themmuns should stand aside too.

In fairness Snipe, the Shinners mooted joint FMs long before this election was called. for me it also makes sense since it more accurately reflects how parties must work together. I believe the DUPers poo hooed it on the basis that their sole election strategy revolves around convincing their dull witted voters that only them as the largest party stands between yousins and a United Ireland. Pure nonsense of course. Neither side can do a damned thing without the other.

A United Ireland is inevitable on the numbers game with more catholics being born & the older profile Prods dying out quicker plus the fact that so many now chose to leave, me included though don't call me a prod. In the short term the DUPers would be smarter by playing nice and treat all people with a bit less arrogance for that is exactly what drove many voters either to not vote or to vote for more moderate politics.

Not that I've any great love for Mike Nesbitt, but given he was the only person in the entire cabal of self-serving wide boys & girls to have the temerity to suggest you might actually vote for policies rather than sectarian values, he is a sad loss all things considered, Nice try Mike but the proles weren't buying this year.

#I'mamoderate,getmeouttahere
#yisarewelcometothisvileweestatelet
#DUPer&Chuckiebastards
#BananaRepublicSepticIsle
#Agenletetedumbasdirtdipshit

Sent from my Nexus 6P using Tapatalk

[BaggyTrousers]

SF will love Tory rule for a while. They are at their most strongest when in the camp of dissent and protest. Jesus, can you imagine them if the Tories imposed cuts, brexit etc etc etc..... That scenario is Gerry's wet dream. SF can't govern for tom kite but by heck can they round up a protest. You name it, water charges, gays, brexit, tory cuts they love being the populist voice. Sure remember they were sending gobshites out to Greece in support of the greek gobshites.

DUP need to get back into government and fast. They may need to back down and let Arlene go on gardening leave for a bit. Get SF into government and let them not deliver for another 10 years...

You need to think in multiple dimensions
SF and yourself appear to only consider linear actions and reactions

Sent from my SM-G930F using Tapatalk

Russ, please treat Agen-le-tete with a degree of sensitivity on this matter, he may well be a dipshit, but my information is that the RA exiled him hence he has gone to the antipodes. He may have been a drug dealer, I don't know, just guessing, but they allegedly said go & go he did.

[BaggyTrousers]

I think it is increasingly wrong to make any assumptions about the outcome of a border poll.
Obviously it all depends on what is on offer, but I'm convinced that there are a lot of cultural nationalists who would not want to join a united Ireland. Lumping together the SF and SDLP votes and assuming they would all vote for unification is a bit of a leap. I don't have a particularly high regard for the NI electorate, but they are a bit more sophisticated that that.

If you're talking about a 'New Ireland', that may be a different proposition entirely.
There is a lot about the ROI that is fairly unattractive as a proposition. If there was a radical overhaul of the ROI it could be a more attractive, but as it stands, I wouldn't hold out much hope of a United Ireland any time soon.

Snipe, I've reread what I said and I had not intended to convey it as simplistically as that, I know several folk who you might think would vote one way or another, but probably won't. Funny enough, I think that having the citizens of the sovereign state that is the ROI wanting to accept the Nordies warts & all, would be just as doubtful a proposition, certainly not a penalty kick, despite decades of the now rescinded Territorial Claim.

I'd agree too that it would need to be sold very much as a "New Ireland". The biggest problem would be a severe lack of good will amongst the parties here, but if they did but have the wit there is little doubt that there is a huge amount of duplication if not triplication allows substantial savings. The notion that it is unaffordable is as simplistic as how I phrased my impening doom for the Union.

[Rooster]

I see the new Shinners mantra is "Joint First Minister". They're some value..........

It is beyond me why the DUP don't tell Michelle O'Neill to stand down while the RHI inquiry is going on as her department was promoting it and she was involved in meetings about it despite what she is saying in the press.

Simple enough, that one. Arlene was the Minister in charge of the department which designed and launched the scheme and which removed the cap on payments which were left in place in the GB model. Arlene was also in charge of the DUP at the time her SPADS were, allegedly, running around trying to keep the scheme open. Ergo, she has questions to answer and should stand aside until she's absolved of blame. This would be the expected behaviour in most other liberal democracies. This is Norn Iron, however, so if one of 'our ones' has to stand aside, then obviously one of themmuns should stand aside too.

Michelle was in charge of Agriculture and her department was promoting the scheme, she was actively involved yet she denied knowing much about the scheme or attending meetings, it is fact that she attended meetings and promoted the scheme and also abused her position as Agriculture Minister by attending meetings and leaking embargoed information.

[Snipe Watson]

I think it is increasingly wrong to make any assumptions about the outcome of a border poll.
Obviously it all depends on what is on offer, but I'm convinced that there are a lot of cultural nationalists who would not want to join a united Ireland. Lumping together the SF and SDLP votes and assuming they would all vote for unification is a bit of a leap. I don't have a particularly high regard for the NI electorate, but they are a bit more sophisticated that that.

If you're talking about a 'New Ireland', that may be a different proposition entirely.
There is a lot about the ROI that is fairly unattractive as a proposition. If there was a radical overhaul of the ROI it could be a more attractive, but as it stands, I wouldn't hold out much hope of a United Ireland any time soon.

Snipe, I've reread what I said and I had not intended to convey it as simplistically as that, I know several folk who you might think would vote one way or another, but probably won't. Funny enough, I think that having the citizens of the sovereign state that is the ROI wanting to accept the Nordies warts & all, would be just as doubtful a proposition, certainly not a penalty kick, despite decades of the now rescinded Territorial Claim.

I'd agree too that it would need to be sold very much as a "New Ireland". The biggest problem would be a severe lack of good will amongst the parties here, but if they did but have the wit there is little doubt that there is a huge amount of duplication if not triplication allows substantial savings. The notion that it is unaffordable is as simplistic as how I phrased my impening doom for the Union.

I don't think the parties are respected by the electorate. They win by default and because the system, enshrined in the various agreements cobbled together by said parties, ensures continuity of tenure for themselves.
What I'm trying to say is that the parties have stitched up the system to keep themselves in jobs and the only way I see of breaking the logjam is for a popular movement. If there was some creative thinking done and a few big gestures made, the whole shower of incompetents that we call the Norn Iron Assembly could be bypassed and left, a bit like Nigel Farage, overtaken by events and rendered irrelevant.
It's a long shot I know, but why not dream? It's no more improbable than that current shower ever coming up with an answer other than maintaining the status quo.
It's a bit of a catch 22 as well. The parties we have representing us don't really speak for us, if you know what I mean?
I think the population we have are far more tolerant and accommodating of difference than the gulpins we elect.