London Bridge

[bazzaj]

Seems like another terrorist incident this time at London Bridge.
Reports of gun fire and a van mowing people down.
No word of casualties as yet.

[bazzaj]

Two seperate incidents one also at Borough market.

[Russ]

Vauxhall now too

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[Bart S]

Fatalities now confirmed.

[BaggyTrousers]

Sadly 7 people now dead plus three dead pieces of excrement, almost 50 injuries, many serious, some critical.

They appear to be on a rampage at present, probably tied to some extent into election time when politicians spout a load of hot air about how our security services are defeating them whereas, take three fanatics who are prepared to die and it's as near unpreventable as makes no difference.

Note to Jizzbag: do not confuse an individual incident being to all intents and purposes "unpreventable" with sitting back on your shitebox doing nothing in respect of the overall situation.

I will not be surprised if they attack one or more polling stations on Thursday.

[Cockatrice]

I would not even be surprised if they had a go this evening in Manchester again...

I suspect it won't even be too long before sometime in the future someone questions the shooting dead of a terrorist with the usually why they couldn't be arrested crap... on this occasions the vests made it an easier decision.

btw.. I don't need the lecture of these type of terrorists can't be arrested as I have a fair understanding of their mindset and why they should all be provided with the opportunity to visit the 72 virgins promised.

[Cap'n Grumpy]

I suspect the fake suicide bomb vests was (at least in part) their way of ensuring martyrdom, as they would hope the police would be reluctant to try to arrest them while being seen to wear a possible explosive device. Safer and surer to kill them on the spot.

[Cockatrice]

I suspect the fake suicide bomb vests was (at least in part) their way of ensuring martyrdom, as they would hope the police would be reluctant to try to arrest them while being seen to wear a possible explosive device. Safer and surer to kill them on the spot.

Depends how they shot them. ... kill needs to be with a shot to head to reduce or eliminate risk of pushing button.. in a bar situation with dozens of bystanders panicking the risk of collateral damage can be considerably increased... if they were shot to the vest then the police may actually have risked others... it is hard to win

[Cockatrice]

I wonder if in years to come the police will be hunted down and charged with criminal offences for doing their job..

[Rooster]

I suspect the fake suicide bomb vests was (at least in part) their way of ensuring martyrdom, as they would hope the police would be reluctant to try to arrest them while being seen to wear a possible explosive device. Safer and surer to kill them on the spot.

Depends how they shot them. ... kill needs to be with a shot to head to reduce or eliminate risk of pushing button.. in a bar situation with dozens of bystanders panicking the risk of collateral damage can be considerably increased... if they were shot to the vest then the police may actually have risked others... it is hard to win

Bound to be a gamble even shooting them in the head depending on what way vest is wired, it could be set to fire when released or when closed so even a hit to brain stem could still result in detonation, tricky feckers to deal with. Also a moving target in a crowded situation and it would take a very accurate shot to take down the correct person without serious risk to those running around , fair play to those involved if they managed to take those 3 down with no collateral damage.

[Rooster]

I wonder if in years to come the police will be hunted down and charged with criminal offences for doing their job..

I wouldn't be surprised if they were

[Cockatrice]

I suspect the fake suicide bomb vests was (at least in part) their way of ensuring martyrdom, as they would hope the police would be reluctant to try to arrest them while being seen to wear a possible explosive device. Safer and surer to kill them on the spot.

Depends how they shot them. ... kill needs to be with a shot to head to reduce or eliminate risk of pushing button.. in a bar situation with dozens of bystanders panicking the risk of collateral damage can be considerably increased... if they were shot to the vest then the police may actually have risked others... it is hard to win

Bound to be a gamble even shooting them in the head depending on what way vest is wired, it could be set to fire when released or when closed so even a hit to brain stem could still result in detonation, tricky feckers to deal with. Also a moving target in a crowded situation and it would take a very accurate shot to take down the correct person without serious risk to those running around , fair play to those involved if they managed to take those 3 down with no collateral damage.

rooster... I note the three appear to have been shot outside on the street.. time yet may tell and if not this incident sometime in the future when the police may end up themselves delivering some collateral damage and cracks will appear and someone will take issue with a 'shoot to kill' policy.. btw for others there is no other reason for shooting.

There is indeed a risk to shooting these type of people (mad suicide bombers/ with or without vests) in a crowded environment and it may be that sometime in the future we will see the full danger of doing so.

The situation in London is not as secure as the public think and outside of London the country is wide open.. Take the Westminster attack and setting aside driving high power vehicles into crowds and along footpaths the fact that a knifeman was then able to get inside the perimeter of the Place is a prime example that 'real' security was effectively non existence bar the typical bobby at the gate. It took a VIP protection officer to be called from inside to respond otherwise he would have got much further and even watching the PM's escort duty trying to exit her into her car spells disaster waiting to happen..

[Pablo]

CTSFO training today hinges on stopping the killing as quickly as possible. That means take action such as last night immediately. These tactics are uniform across the CTSFO network within the UK and Europe. Suicide vest or not they will be engaged. The first police on the scene at the Bataclan theatre (non specialist) engaged one of the terrorists who was on the stage firing an AK. His vest detonated. Their actions are credited with saving many lives.

[BaggyTrousers]

I wonder if in years to come the police will be hunted down and charged with criminal offences for doing their job..

I wouldn't be surprised if they were

I would be very very surprised. The peelers who shot those three fuc'ks deserve and will hopefully get medals, they currently have the thanks of the vast majority of people of the UK, Christian, Muslim, Jew, Sikh, Jedi Knight, Calathumpians, Covfefeists and the rest of the normal sensible non-worshipping community.

This week, for the first time, I've heard someone from UKIP say something with which I can agree wholeheartedly. Any motherfokker going to fight for daesh should be asked to hand his passport to cabin crew when boarding the outward flight ...... well I say that, it would be better to just shoot them in the head on the runway.

[BaggyTrousers]

Of course some day there will be someone killed either directly or as a result of police taking action, we all realise that or should do, fact is we all expect the police to do what they are there for and collateral damage will be much regretted but should, in reality, be viewed in the same way as if the terrorist was pulling the trigger.

These people are out to take as many lives as possible, so the fact is that if some unfortunate innocent, that could be you or me, get unlucky then that is part of the equation in the police preventing greater losses. When that day comes I will remember what I have written and hope others will understand that last night the necessary shooting of these thugs saved many lives.

The police, fire service and medical people run into these situations whilst Joe Public is running away, they all deserve not just our thanks but our understanding for the job they do. I say that as someone who despised the South Yorkshire Police for being used as paramilitaries on Thatcher's behalf during the miners' strike and I see absolutely no contradiction in that.