And today, joining the underground .....

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rumncoke
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Re: And today, joining the underground .....

Post by rumncoke »

Not even Moses could Look at the face of God ---and God will look after (Wo)mankind but not in this life
Within this carapace of skepticism there lives an optimist
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big mervyn
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Re: And today, joining the underground .....

Post by big mervyn »

rumncoke wrote: Wed Nov 03, 2021 12:28 pm Not even Moses could Look at the face of God ---and God will look after (Wo)mankind but not in this life
Volunteer at an animal sanctuary; it will fill you with joy , despair, but most of all love, unconditional love of the animals.
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solidarity
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Re: And today, joining the underground .....

Post by solidarity »

Just watched the BBC documentary on Barney Curley, who died in May this year - fascinating, well worth a look.
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big mervyn
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Re: And today, joining the underground .....

Post by big mervyn »

solidarity wrote: Wed Nov 03, 2021 9:41 pm Just watched the BBC documentary on Barney Curley, who died in May this year - fascinating, well worth a look.
His life storey make a great fillum. The "Yellow Sam" sting is the stuff of legend.
Volunteer at an animal sanctuary; it will fill you with joy , despair, but most of all love, unconditional love of the animals.
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pwrmoore
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Re: And today, joining the underground .....

Post by pwrmoore »

Snipe Watson wrote: Tue Nov 02, 2021 5:17 pm
Dave wrote: Tue Nov 02, 2021 3:58 pm
Snipe Watson wrote:
Dave wrote: Tue Nov 02, 2021 12:39 pm God supposedly created the job lot:

The man, the sin, murderous intent, the brain to conceive it, the body to carry it out...

He knew it was going to happen (apparently). That is joint enterprise.
How do you work that one out :scratch:
Knew about the premeditated plan. Supplied the means.

Guilty as charged.
Okay, you're not really comparing apples with apples. If God is God, His relationship to His creation is not as simple as you appear to think it is.
If (for the sake of argument) Elon Musk were to produce a group of self-replicating robots with the ability to 'think' for themselves, make their own decisions and to build anything they could conceive, and then a number of replications later they conceived and built weapons and started to destroy everything around them. Would you consider Elon to have no responsibility for their development and actions?
Paul.

C'mon Ulsterrrrrrrrr! :red:
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pwrmoore
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Re: And today, joining the underground .....

Post by pwrmoore »

BR wrote: Tue Nov 02, 2021 5:41 pm
Dave wrote: Tue Nov 02, 2021 5:30 pm
Snipe Watson wrote: Okay, you're not really comparing apples with apples. If God is God, His relationship to His creation is not as simple as you appear to think it is.
Explain....
BT is not responsible for O2.
I would trust Telefonica before trusting BT. And I don't think God has ever been characterised as having sold his creation to anyone
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C'mon Ulsterrrrrrrrr! :red:
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Re: And today, joining the underground .....

Post by Cap'n Grumpy »

Dave wrote: Tue Nov 02, 2021 5:30 pm
Snipe Watson wrote: Okay, you're not really comparing apples with apples. If God is God, His relationship to His creation is not as simple as you appear to think it is.
Explain....
Difficult to explain a relationship if you're not in that relationship.

Even more difficult to explain if you deny there even is a relationship.

Almost impossible to explain the relationship if you don't even believe that one party to the relationship exists.
Dave wrote: Sun Oct 31, 2021 11:31 am The maker made Hitler. FFS.
In the real world, maybe, but on this and other fora*, I think you'll find that was Mike Godwin . . .


. . . assuming he ever existed, of course ...


. . . and that you believe he existed . . .


. . . and maybe even if you don't believe that . . .




. . . wot wuz the question again? :scratch:



* other plurals of forum are available . . . if you believe in them. Well, at least one anyway. :?
I'm not arguing -
I'm just explaining why I'm right
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Snipe Watson
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Re: And today, joining the underground .....

Post by Snipe Watson »

pwrmoore wrote: Thu Nov 04, 2021 8:59 am
Snipe Watson wrote: Tue Nov 02, 2021 5:17 pm
Dave wrote: Tue Nov 02, 2021 3:58 pm
Snipe Watson wrote:
Dave wrote: Tue Nov 02, 2021 12:39 pm God supposedly created the job lot:

The man, the sin, murderous intent, the brain to conceive it, the body to carry it out...

He knew it was going to happen (apparently). That is joint enterprise.
How do you work that one out :scratch:
Knew about the premeditated plan. Supplied the means.

Guilty as charged.
Okay, you're not really comparing apples with apples. If God is God, His relationship to His creation is not as simple as you appear to think it is.
If (for the sake of argument) Elon Musk were to produce a group of self-replicating robots with the ability to 'think' for themselves, make their own decisions and to build anything they could conceive, and then a number of replications later they conceived and built weapons and started to destroy everything around them. Would you consider Elon to have no responsibility for their development and actions?
Elon is still not God though. He's good, but not God.
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Dave
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Re: And today, joining the underground .....

Post by Dave »


Cap'n Grumpy wrote:
Dave wrote: Tue Nov 02, 2021 5:30 pm
Snipe Watson wrote: Okay, you're not really comparing apples with apples. If God is God, His relationship to His creation is not as simple as you appear to think it is.
Explain....
Difficult to explain a relationship if you're not in that relationship.

Even more difficult to explain if you deny there even is a relationship.

Almost impossible to explain the relationship if you don't even believe that one party to the relationship exists.
Dave wrote: Sun Oct 31, 2021 11:31 am The maker made Hitler. FFS.
In the real world, maybe, but on this and other fora*, I think you'll find that was Mike Godwin . . .


. . . assuming he ever existed, of course ...


. . . and that you believe he existed . . .


. . . and maybe even if you don't believe that . . .




. . . wot wuz the question again? :scratch:



* other plurals of forum are available . . . if you believe in them. Well, at least one anyway. :?
Try to explain it anyway...

There is good evidence to suggest both Hitler and Mike Godwin existed. Godwin might still exist actually!
I have my own tv channel, what have you got?
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Dave
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Re: And today, joining the underground .....

Post by Dave »

Elon Musk doesn't have fore knowledge of what exactly each robot will do. Nor does he then subsequently judge them for the 'bad things' he knew they would do. He wouldn't then hide from them and punish them for unbelief. Well he might, I'm not sure.
I have my own tv channel, what have you got?
justinr73
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Re: And today, joining the underground .....

Post by justinr73 »

solidarity wrote: Wed Nov 03, 2021 9:41 pm Just watched the BBC documentary on Barney Curley, who died in May this year - fascinating, well worth a look.
Struck me that he had a lot in common with Trevor Hemmings - born in the mid to late ‘30s, poor background, moved because of armed conflict, work ethic from a young age, entrepreneurs, big financial gambles, the horses, philanthropy and so on.

Two great characters.
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Snipe Watson
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Re: And today, joining the underground .....

Post by Snipe Watson »

Dave wrote: Thu Nov 04, 2021 2:36 pm
Cap'n Grumpy wrote:
Dave wrote: Tue Nov 02, 2021 5:30 pm
Snipe Watson wrote: Okay, you're not really comparing apples with apples. If God is God, His relationship to His creation is not as simple as you appear to think it is.
Explain....
Difficult to explain a relationship if you're not in that relationship.

Even more difficult to explain if you deny there even is a relationship.

Almost impossible to explain the relationship if you don't even believe that one party to the relationship exists.
Dave wrote: Sun Oct 31, 2021 11:31 am The maker made Hitler. FFS.
In the real world, maybe, but on this and other fora*, I think you'll find that was Mike Godwin . . .


. . . assuming he ever existed, of course ...


. . . and that you believe he existed . . .


. . . and maybe even if you don't believe that . . .




. . . wot wuz the question again? :scratch:



* other plurals of forum are available . . . if you believe in them. Well, at least one anyway. :?
Try to explain it anyway...

There is good evidence to suggest both Hitler and Mike Godwin existed. Godwin might still exist actually!
Acceptance that there is a Creator God requires an entirely different worldview that places God at the centre as a supernatural being who exists in a realm beyond space and time. Space and time being part of His creation.
You may view this as conveniently packaged fairy story which is fine. I don't expect a non-believer to see things as a believer does. Nor do I believe that I can convince you through the amazing logic of my argument.
Taking the atheistic view that we are just randomly evolved bundles of cells and chemicals, by definition requires that there is no God. That is the non-negotiable starting point. Therefore there is no mutually agreeable starting point for discussion. You pick which miracle you're going to hang your hat on. Either the supernatural miracle of creation by God or the supernatural miracle of everything from nothing. Willingness to at least consider the contrary position will create a platform for discussion, but standing firmly on a hill shouting at people on another hill is pointless.
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Dave
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Re: And today, joining the underground .....

Post by Dave »


Snipe Watson wrote:
Acceptance that there is a Creator God requires an entirely different worldview that places God at the centre as a supernatural being who exists in a realm beyond space and time. Space and time being part of His creation.
You may view this as conveniently packaged fairy story which is fine. I don't expect a non-believer to see things as a believer does. Nor do I believe that I can convince you through the amazing logic of my argument.
Taking the atheistic view that we are just randomly evolved bundles of cells and chemicals, by definition requires that there is no God. That is the non-negotiable starting point. Therefore there is no mutually agreeable starting point for discussion. You pick which miracle you're going to hang your hat on. Either the supernatural miracle of creation by God or the supernatural miracle of everything from nothing. Willingness to at least consider the contrary position will create a platform for discussion, but standing firmly on a hill shouting at people on another hill is pointless.
I am open to a supernatural God creating the universe. Just provide the evidence on how you're so convinced on a particular version. I'm not an atheistic, so this doesn't boil down to evolution versus Christianity. Evolutionary theory is theoretical, there many flaws and gaps in the knowledge. They can at least demonstrate how or why a particular explanation is theorised, because the scientific method demands experimentation or observation of such things.

You guys are saying not only, did (a particular) God create the universe but also you have relationship with this God. How do you logically explain this?







I have my own tv channel, what have you got?
Hawkeye
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Re: And today, joining the underground .....

Post by Hawkeye »

Explain infinity. If you believe in infinity then all things are possible.
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Dave
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Re: And today, joining the underground .....

Post by Dave »

Hawkeye wrote:Explain infinity. If you believe in infinity then all things are possible.
Exactly. I've rarely heard a religious type express the thought they might be wrong.
I have my own tv channel, what have you got?
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