Player movement

[Dharper]

There appears to be a growing narrative in the media that it is only a matter of time before provincial squads alter. Specifically with less URC games, and a lack of league games during the international window, that it will result in some players chasing game time by moving, and that large squads will be unable to offer sufficient gametime time to keep all players happy.

I was particularly surprised by Luke Fitzgerald on the left wing bluntly saying that while some will happily stay where they are, and be bit part players, that players with international ambitions may have to move....this appeared to be from a “Leinster prism”....although sounded like theoretical argument.

What are people’s thoughts.....and how might this effect Ulster?

Leinsters backrow riches springs to mind.

[justinr73]

Given that we’re in a period of nine weeks between home games, some of the fans may have to move too.

[rumncoke]

Some players may benefit from a mid season break because it may provide time for the effects of cumulative minor injuries to heal properly -- it also reduces the pressure to over train to get back if injured .

Management may also benefit because they have time to review the games played to date identify faults both individual and team and work to eliminate them over a number of weeks on the training ground --and also to devise try scoring plays in areas of the pitch .

Management also have the chance to review games played by future opponents and identify their strengths and weaknesses over a period of weeks rather than days.

That is benefit of breaks player movement -- is basically a case of far away fields look green -- and depends on the ambition of players and also are they going to improve themselves as well as the Clubs they join .

Ulster at the moment have a young squad -- some may improve with age ( forwards) some may never ( backs ) The problem for backs is that their game and weaknesses become exposed over a couple of seasons and then teams will try to exploit the identified weakness their game doesn't get hidden within a pack.

[Bayern]

There appears to be a growing narrative in the media that it is only a matter of time before provincial squads alter. Specifically with less URC games, and a lack of league games during the international window, that it will result in some players chasing game time by moving, and that large squads will be unable to offer sufficient gametime time to keep all players happy.

I was particularly surprised by Luke Fitzgerald on the left wing bluntly saying that while some will happily stay where they are, and be bit part players, that players with international ambitions may have to move....this appeared to be from a “Leinster prism”....although sounded like theoretical argument.

What are people’s thoughts.....and how might this effect Ulster?

Leinsters backrow riches springs to mind.

So Ulster fans want more players who can't get games for Leinster into their pack?

[Grey Wolf]

My own view is that I’d like there to be a directive that if you want to play for Ireland you need to be a starter/first backup in your position. Call it optics, or pure idealism but I don’t like that you can accumulate very few minutes for Leinster and still make the cut above your peers who play week in week out.

Not sure how feasible it is but Harry Byrne and the Leinster back row are obvious candidates. Surely it would benefit both the national team and the other Provence’s if such a directive existed.

[solidarity]

My own view is that I’d like there to be a directive that if you want to play for Ireland you need to be a starter/first backup in your position. Call it optics, or pure idealism but I don’t like that you can accumulate very few minutes for Leinster and still make the cut above your peers who play week in week out.

Not sure how feasible it is but Harry Byrne and the Leinster back row are obvious candidates. Surely it would benefit both the national team and the other Provence’s if such a directive existed.

Not sure about that directive, surely the best fifteen players should start, no matter what their club situation is. If the IRFU are so keen to dvelop the national team, then they should more actively move players round the provinces, rather than allow Leinster to have such squad depth. I realise that this might make Leinster a bit less competitive in European competitions, but, if we want to develop Irish rugby as a whole, so be it. Of course, the big question is, if Leinster can produce so many fine players, why can't we?

[jean valjean]

It's not good for the game in Ireland for the national team to be so dominated by one province. Fans will be turned off and leinster essentially becomes a national team training full time together, which raises standards and the gap to the others even further. Fringe leinster players then benefit from the halo effect of being in a winning team and the early international recognition cycle continues.

[Dharper]

So i think this will be interesting going forward, and it may kick in over next 1/2yrs as contracts come up for renewal. Although partially framed through Leinster and its back row options we could equally discuss the Munster options coming through at 10 for instance.

Personally I always found it frustrating the amount of talent sitting in the stands in Leinster big games and wondered what was going through their minds when they were better than the opponent players who were playing.

Frankly guys like John Cooney should be the perfect example.....if only he had received the number of Ire caps he deserved last 3/4 seasons.

Young player gametime development could be particularly challenging, with a general conservative approach in Ireland.

[Dave]

There appears to be a growing narrative in the media that it is only a matter of time before provincial squads alter. Specifically with less URC games, and a lack of league games during the international window, that it will result in some players chasing game time by moving, and that large squads will be unable to offer sufficient gametime time to keep all players happy.

I was particularly surprised by Luke Fitzgerald on the left wing bluntly saying that while some will happily stay where they are, and be bit part players, that players with international ambitions may have to move....this appeared to be from a “Leinster prism”....although sounded like theoretical argument.

What are people’s thoughts.....and how might this effect Ulster?

Leinsters backrow riches springs to mind.

So Ulster fans want more players who can't get games for Leinster into their pack?

That would include some excellent players. If they want to come to play for Ulster they are more than welcome.

[solidarity]

That would include some excellent players. If they want to come to play for Ulster they are more than welcome.

I agree, sadly. It would be great if we could produce enough talent of our own but it looks like we simply can't, so let's give opportunities to lads who have a point to prove.

[UlsterNo9]

So Ulster fans want more players who can't get games for Leinster into their pack?

Unsure if Leinster would get first pick of players born in Leinster.

It would all go by depth charts, e.g. Leinster have two current international tight heads, there's a kid with Lions pedigree coming through in Dublin, IRFU direct him to the next available province that he's going to get game time.

[jean valjean]

It will be interesting to see how this works out. Do players become better training at a high level every week without necessarily starting every big game? Or do they train at a lower standard/ intensity but play in all the big games. It appears farrell puts more weight on the first. If Baloucoune was dodging vdf, Doris and conan in training week in week out would he not be a better player for it? Not advocating he goes to leinster btw.

[Dave]

Farrell is a clown if he thinks that. It's clear that playing for Ulster fcuks your Ireland chances.

[Snipe Watson]

Based on current form and fitness there are no Ulster players that I would put into that Ireland team.
My antipathy towards the IRFU has been regularly expressed, but I don't see anti Ulster bias in selection. There have been faces that did not fit at times and players from performing provinces have been given the nod, but no real bias in my eyes.
There is no question that the IRFU are weak and kowtow to pressure from various interest groups. I have no time for them, but think we need to apportion blame correctly.

[rumncoke]

Snipe

Ulster have at least 4 players worthy of selection Henderson Stockdale, Baloucoune, Herring. and pressing hard Timoney, McCloskey Cooney , and Addison

Their problem is that Ulster frequently have too many injuries to key players and a surplus of inexperienced players in key positions thus their efforts and skills are Lost in especially in key matches

Those I have identified could and would match the performances of the Leinster players in games like yesterdays

Exactly why PoM was on the bench is worth thinking about ?the man is an enforcer -- alternative in the line out -- is there an need for that type of player against Japan -- the English French and All Blacks -- he would first on the sheet or bench , but Japan don't play that type of game therefore PoM can become a liability rather than an asset.