Leinster v Ulster Saturday Nov 27th 8pm KO

Talk about the men in white, and everything Ulster!!

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solidarity
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Re: Leinster v Ulster Saturday Nov 27th 8pm KO

Post by solidarity »

Have to agree with Rum on this. Cetainly Ulster were probably well ahead on possession, time in the opponents 22, metres gained etc but it's points on the board that count and Leinster could have snatched it at any time up to Hume's try. It was a fine performance with many positives and little to gurn about but a truly dominant performance has to be reflected by points on the board or it means nothing.

If the game's still on, Ospreys this Saturday should be a good show. I'd like to think we'll be able to truly dominate them.
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Re: Leinster v Ulster Saturday Nov 27th 8pm KO

Post by Soda »

UlsterNo9 wrote:Your hole Soda! Furlong and Henshaw Leinster 2nds?

We were missing a few ourselves

Addison
Baloucoune
Henderson
Izuchukwu
Madigan
McGrath
Murphy
O'Toole
Roberts
Stockdale
erm....


Andrew Porter
Ronan Kelleher
Cian Healy
James Ryan
Caelan Doris
Josh Van der Flier
Jack Conan
Jamison Gibson Park
Johnny Sexton
James Lowe
Gary Ringrose
Hugo Keenan

not counting Ryan Baird

(not sure you should really be counting Addison either, he's ALWAYS missing)



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allezlesverres
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Re: Leinster v Ulster Saturday Nov 27th 8pm KO

Post by allezlesverres »

It was a cracking game of rugby. It was a bit disappointing how poorly we converted our dominance into points but at the same time, Leinster are extremely good defensively so that is a big part of the answer to that question. We also missed a few shots at goal that would have helped the scoreboard look a lot more rosy. I thought our back row were all good, even Jones before he went off. That was Rea's best performance in years and maybe ever. Likewise McCann seemed to be much more comfortable at senior level. Timoney just gets better and better - I hope he stays fit. The much maligned Burns had a very good game as well. When he is prepared to take the ball to the line he can be a very competent 10. He was comfortably better than the other two Ireland hopefuls.

Hume will be very unfortunate if he doesn't get some caps in the 6N. He is miles better than Ringrose and if he was playing in blue week in week out he would be a starting centre for Ireland by now.
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Re: Leinster v Ulster Saturday Nov 27th 8pm KO

Post by MightyRearranger »

Neither side had a entirely first choice team out, though Leinster had a fair few more missing due to the international duty as you would expect. Even with that though, the bookies made them 14 point favourites; given that being comfortably the better team isn't something to be too dismissive off. The quarter final in the Aviva a few years back showed that at full strength and playing well we can be competitive with Leinster, but we don't have either their consistency or strength in depth.

For me, the only negative is how close the match was given our dominance. Similar to the Ireland game last week, there was always a feeling, right the way up until Hume's intercept that they might sneak it at the depth. When things are the other way around, and we don't get off the bus Leinster have been known to give us an absolute shoeing, to be able to consistently compete with them we need to be a lot more clinical.
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Re: Leinster v Ulster Saturday Nov 27th 8pm KO

Post by MightyRearranger »

I should also say, although I know it's not the position he wants to play in the long term, it's good to have Lowry back on the pitch, even as a 15. In my opinion we really need at least one of him and Adison on the pitch, or else we look like we're lacking in creativity.
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Re: Leinster v Ulster Saturday Nov 27th 8pm KO

Post by justinr73 »

I thought McGrath looked cold.

He was trying to warm up during the first half with Reid and Rea Snr iirc.
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Re: Leinster v Ulster Saturday Nov 27th 8pm KO

Post by WestDr »

'd concur with Solids here - it's hard to define dominance at 10-10 with, what 15 minutes or so left vs Leinster, who despite who was and wasn't playing, have this unhappy knack of doing what it takes to win. No, I'd propose that a better term is 'comprehensive' as I was surprised how comprehensively Ulster beat Leinster.

Hard to think who will be more pleased - the coaching staff or the players. There was clearly a plan (as Darren Cave and Luke Fitzgerald noted) with some neat flourishes - e.g. how to get round Devin Toner on our lineouts, as well as going after their line-out very effectively. Noticeable too was that we did something we rarely do - I can't recall either of our wings getting a pass in first or even second phase - and we seemed to make a conscious decision not to force it generally or attempt to out-run our support (only one ruck not properly resourced and Leinster nearly score). Neat compact rugby.

As for the players, they had to both buy into it and, more importantly, implement it for 80+ minutes and do so from 1-23. Which they very successfully did. And I'd surmise that interception tries are usually a good indicator of pressure on an opposition back-line. It's fairly infrequent for Leinster to concede them - and that they did was the outcome of a similar situation to us vs Connacht. Perhaps having four weeks to think about it wasn't all bad ?

Agreed that Leo and Stuart Lancaster will not play that selection and in those combinations again, but frankly that, despite what Soda wants to maintain, it was Leinster's choice to play that particular group. And why not ? It ground out a victory v Dragons playing equally poorly. And at 13-10 with less than 10 left, there aren't many who'd turn down the odds on Leinster winning. But, best of all, we comprehensively out-thought, out-fought, out-performed and in the end out-believed that Leinster selection on the pitch for the whole match. I can recall only once did that ominous Leinster rumble forward get going - and that wasn't the piece of Henshaw skill to turn a very poor McGrath pass into a try. That's a real triumph. Yes, I'd like to have converted more of our scoring opportunities, but how often do Leinster not get at least a losing bonus point either (once a season ?)

As for specific individuals, hard to pick out one - I'd chosen Hume from PotM before his try, but everyone, even Sam Carter, did what they were there to do. And then some. Even Lowry played within the plan, and Nathan Doak showed what a learning player he is. Not sure about the ever-reducing area of hair myself (almost an anti-Bradley look), but I fear soon we may see less of him than we'd like. Substitutions showed who is reckoned to have the necessaries - for example, keeping Herring for all 80 ensured leadership, experience and line-out execution. Nick Timoney has been a favourite for a long while - not least as an honest pro who's taken a very large series of steps forward still with his socks round his ankles like a Gaelic footballer on the wrong pitch, but also as an example to the Deegan's, Penny's etc, that you can go to Ulster, develop and get picked for Ireland. What's changed too is that it's gone from "Duane Vermuelen has to solve these issues" to "you can see where Duane Vermuelen can add to this team".

Frank Murphy - the same for both sides, which I 'd suggest actually un-nerved Leinster more than us. And interesting to see how, as he was the most senior of the reffing team, that the TMO was there when asked, and unlike Joy or Ian Davies, not trying to ref the game as well. Think I'd like to see the double tackle on Jones looked at again - it looked awful in real time too.

Is the Ulster hype train back on the rails ? Well, one thing's for sure - the two home inter-pros over Christmas and New Year will be sell-outs so the FDs is happy as well.... Roll on Saints at home - Boyd's got them playing too.
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Re: Leinster v Ulster Saturday Nov 27th 8pm KO

Post by justinr73 »

Good post WestDr.

I’d go even further and say that the suggestions that we didn’t rack up a big enough score or only beat a team of duffers (11 internationals was it?) sound churlish (however well-intentioned I would hope those comments were).

Just about to watch the game back but my overwhelming impression at the game was indeed that we comprehensively beat Leinster. The margin on the board, and recent history, kept us grounded until Hume scored (I would have been on the edge of my seat had their been room) but the sense that we unquestionably had the upper hand was palpable.

A couple of extra tries would have applied some gloss, and John could easily have nailed those pens on another day, but, in my book, that would add nothing to the manner and significance of both the performance and result. It’s now about how the players, especially the youngsters, draw on that going forward.

Got a couple of kind words after the game but about 95% of the home support looked stunned and shell-shocked.

It was great.
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Re: Leinster v Ulster Saturday Nov 27th 8pm KO

Post by justinr73 »

Can someone fix the edit function please?!
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Dave
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Re: Leinster v Ulster Saturday Nov 27th 8pm KO

Post by Dave »

Fair play to those who annually make the trip to their DS. Not many happy memories (in terms of rugby).

Some contrast from the performance vs Connacht. Which one will we see next?
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Re: Leinster v Ulster Saturday Nov 27th 8pm KO

Post by Soda »


WestDr wrote:, but frankly that, despite what Soda wants to maintain, it was Leinster's choice to play that particular group. And why not
eh?
never said it wasn't

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Re: Leinster v Ulster Saturday Nov 27th 8pm KO

Post by Bart S »

Alleys les verres - Ringrose has had a disappointing couple,of seasons but looks to be back to his best and was outstanding against the All Blacks in all aspects. Hume and McCloskey should be looking to usurp Chris Farrell and become next in line after Ringrose, Henshaw and Aki, soo fo whom are playing very well. I can’t see Hume starting the 6N’s ahead of them and that’s fair enough IMHO.
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Re: Leinster v Ulster Saturday Nov 27th 8pm KO

Post by BR »

I think Ringrose was concussed during the NZ game and it greatly improved his play.

After a reasonable rest, I expect him to return to his former mediocrity.
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Re: Leinster v Ulster Saturday Nov 27th 8pm KO

Post by BR »

solidarity wrote: Mon Nov 29, 2021 10:40 am ... Leinster could have snatched it at any time up to Hume's try.
Hume could easily have given them that opportunity. The difference between an intercept try and a penalty conceded for deliberate ko is millimeters.

Hume should not have been taking that risk, but neither should he have been in that position. A shout of 'Munster' should have been made in the closing minutes when we had possession. Those are the sort of game management decisions that have cost us dearly in the past (see beagle). Leadership is difficult to maintain after 75' with subs and players moving position, but I worry that we need some more pienaar, cave, ludik influences.

More generally - it looks like we still need to realise more points from attacking possession. Given the pedigree of Saturday's opponents, I'm willing to gloss over it, but I'd be looking for some improvement next week. (not saying we will have the same territorial dominance next week, but I'd like to see a better return on any we have.)
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Re: Leinster v Ulster Saturday Nov 27th 8pm KO

Post by rumncoke »

The thing that Ringrose and Henshaw have in common is self belief and attitude evidenced in Henshaw's try -- a bad ly delivered pass a couple of players to beat and he still scored that is attitude in spades .

Leinster's game plan 9 times out of ten is get possession -get over the gain-- line support the carrier-- wait for the penalty -- kick into the 22 and then go full 120% with the ball at the goal line . Defensively --guard the gain line -- don't contest 1st or second phase or ruck until the carrier gets isolated -- rush the mid field to keep the game close to the ruck -- never commit more than 1 back row to a ruck .

Their defence is basically about guarding the gain line and avoiding penalties, frustrate the opposition to over commit and get penalised.

The Ulster performance was possible because Ulster got into the Leinster 22 early and stayed there putting pressure on the leinster defence for close on 10 minutes -- that pressure then eroded the collective Leinster concentration from the fact that all 15 leinster players had to defend for that time and thus were denied the opportunity to settle into their normal game -- forwards keep possession and kick into an attacking position .
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