Ulster v Scarlets Friday 7:35pm KO Premier Sports 1

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Re: Ulster v Scarlets Friday 7:35pm KO Premier Sports 1

Post by jean valjean »

Conundrum of the day. Without the experience of watching doakball would junior be as good a box kicker??
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Re: Ulster v Scarlets Friday 7:35pm KO Premier Sports 1

Post by big mervyn »

The great thing about Doak , Hume, Lowry is that they exude confidence. Self beluef is half the battle at this level.
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Re: Ulster v Scarlets Friday 7:35pm KO Premier Sports 1

Post by Dave »

UlsterNo9 wrote:
Dave wrote: Sat Jan 29, 2022 1:15 pm The last few games he has much improved. Can he maintain this form? I hope so.

Not much praise for Doak ever on this board. I challenge everyone in the same way. It's easier to slate the younglings apparently. Amazing composure from the young man in the last few outings.

It will do everyone good to forgive the sins of the father.
It's the Ulster way (the geographic region) to be negative of people and knock someone off their perch, this is very typical of people in this part of the world. I'm not suggesting the all american route of blowing smoke up everyones behind and high fives all round upon achieving the smallest task is the way to go but we seem to delight in playing down someones achievements or telling them they're buck eejits for following their dreams.

Doak Jnr confidence could be seen as arrogance by some which is nonsense. I'm excited to see him progress. I don't think he comes in for anymore special praise than any of the other youngsters which have made watching Ulster this season a major plus. Expectations of all our Under 23s should be tempered, these guys aren't going to peaked for another 5/6 years.

As for the sins of the father, I don't know what the general Ulster rugby supporter thinks, but it genuinely hasn't crossed my mind. Doaky Snr has been a fantastic servant to Ulster rugby both as a player and a coach. The main head coach role didn't work out for him (was by no means a disaster), for me he has done more than enough to be in credit. Great to see him involved again with the academy, an environment which we all know he excels in, his students will only benefit from him holding the most senior coaching role at Ulster and adding on international coaching experience at Georgia. I for one am delighted he's back in the system.

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Re: Ulster v Scarlets Friday 7:35pm KO Premier Sports 1

Post by WestDr »

Dave wrote: Sat Jan 29, 2022 1:15 pm
Not much praise for Doak ever on this board. I challenge everyone in the same way. It's easier to slate the younglings apparently. Amazing composure from the young man in the last few outings.
Plenty of praise for Doak on this board. Plenty of criticism for other players too.... Of course, suggestions like with a 9, 12 and 15 that like to make the play, then perhaps the 10 doesn't need to as well can also been made. As has been noted perhaps Billy and Dan McF read this board too ? What Ulster fans do have a tendency to do is to identify Messiahs when perhaps we'd like to see a consistent run of miracles first.

I'd actually suggest that of all the players who could do with their injured colleagues returning, Neil Doak is one of them - he is only barely 20 and it's a fast, hard game at pro level. Once again, last night I thought Shanahan's energy @70 minutes was necessary, as was, to use another example, Brad Roberts' for John Andrew. Doak's kicking wasn't quite at it - 2 from 5 is well below his normal return. Given by what he missed this week and last week, right footers from 0-5 yards in from the left hand touch line seems to be something to work on. There was, however, quite some wind down the pitch last night and getting those right is probably just plenty of practice.

A few things Doak did last night that stood out for me:
  • His kicking - box kicks all a little awry/on the too long side - but again the wind ? Covered the place kicking - which I think explains go for the corner, not the 3 points at teh end. Although I'd have taken the 3 myself.
  • Passing - whilst crisp, variable - a lot goes at head height, not the bread basket. Again, practice. I assume the one in the second half that skidded along the ground was touched by a Scarlets player ?
  • Arm waving - tends to do a lot of this when it's not quite going his way. Scarlets seemed to spend a long time getting out from under and getting annoyed at Jaco Peyper for it had zero returns. Neil should be fortunate Nigel Owens has given up at this level :lol:
  • The side-foot forward from the Burns release inside.... was great to see Billy playing winger, and really impresssed that he made 15 yards at pace, didn't get taken into touch and released it onto the ground. Not seen him do that in that area before. Three bits of skill and expertise matched by Doak's clever and skillful (direction and weight) side-foot. The wit to do it rather than try and pick it up - very impressive indeed. Gilroy seems to benefit from some really bizarre things - cf Northampton at home but you've got to be there (cf Shanahan's tries)


Overall, some of our starting players looked like they hadn't had a game for a while (e.g. Andrew and Lyttle) but gave it lots, whilst others seemed a little short of confidence in certain parts of their game (e.g. Moxham and, to an extent, Curtis).

Other subs again good - McCann and Mick Kearney very effective. Madigan did very well to do something with the almost entirely unexpected pass he got !

Finally, what I liked most was the innovation that is clearly going on, whether forced or unforced, in the way Ulster are playing. Adding strings to our bow is no bad thing, especially when you've a bucket of injuries and 8 away with Ireland. Last season we would have lost that match trying only one method. This season, with pretty much a team that hadn't played either that much together and that much rugby, we won with a bonus point. Lots of leadership from Burns, Vermulen and O'Connor with what looks like a really good collective too. Let's hope we can beat Connacht, who I think have probably been the best performance against us this season and who will test us next Friday.
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Re: Ulster v Scarlets Friday 7:35pm KO Premier Sports 1

Post by justinr73 »

Great to see Big Gareth and Curtis both get on the scoresheet after their major injuries.

I thought McIlroy was very prominent last night. Played really well. The fact that I earmarked him for great things during the Schools Cup Final should gain me some credit should I ever apply for naturalised Ulsterman status.
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Re: Ulster v Scarlets Friday 7:35pm KO Premier Sports 1

Post by WestDr »

justinr73 wrote: Sat Jan 29, 2022 2:57 pm I thought McIlroy was very prominent last night. Played really well.
1. Perhaps something good to come out of Barnet at last ? Pleased to see him playing.
2. McIlroy - had what seemed like an almost game-changing line break in the second half. Although we'd scored a try in the first half, until that bit of Ethan Energy we'd not broken through in any meaningful way. It did seem to provide a whole lift to the team (and the crowd) that we were going to prevail.

As for naturalised Ulsterman status - I've been waiting for 30+ years for it, but like they say about a UI, perhaps not in my lifetime.
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Re: Ulster v Scarlets Friday 7:35pm KO Premier Sports 1

Post by StandUp »

WestDr wrote: Sat Jan 29, 2022 2:29 pm
Dave wrote: Sat Jan 29, 2022 1:15 pm
Not much praise for Doak ever on this board. I challenge everyone in the same way. It's easier to slate the younglings apparently. Amazing composure from the young man in the last few outings.
Plenty of praise for Doak on this board. Plenty of criticism for other players too.... Of course, suggestions like with a 9, 12 and 15 that like to make the play, then perhaps the 10 doesn't need to as well can also been made. As has been noted perhaps Billy and Dan McF read this board too ? What Ulster fans do have a tendency to do is to identify Messiahs when perhaps we'd like to see a consistent run of miracles first.

I'd actually suggest that of all the players who could do with their injured colleagues returning, Neil Doak is one of them - he is only barely 20 and it's a fast, hard game at pro level. Once again, last night I thought Shanahan's energy @70 minutes was necessary, as was, to use another example, Brad Roberts' for John Andrew. Doak's kicking wasn't quite at it - 2 from 5 is well below his normal return. Given by what he missed this week and last week, right footers from 0-5 yards in from the left hand touch line seems to be something to work on. There was, however, quite some wind down the pitch last night and getting those right is probably just plenty of practice.

A few things Doak did last night that stood out for me:
  • His kicking - box kicks all a little awry/on the too long side - but again the wind ? Covered the place kicking - which I think explains go for the corner, not the 3 points at teh end. Although I'd have taken the 3 myself.
  • Passing - whilst crisp, variable - a lot goes at head height, not the bread basket. Again, practice. I assume the one in the second half that skidded along the ground was touched by a Scarlets player ?
  • Arm waving - tends to do a lot of this when it's not quite going his way. Scarlets seemed to spend a long time getting out from under and getting annoyed at Jaco Peyper for it had zero returns. Neil should be fortunate Nigel Owens has given up at this level :lol:
  • The side-foot forward from the Burns release inside.... was great to see Billy playing winger, and really impresssed that he made 15 yards at pace, didn't get taken into touch and released it onto the ground. Not seen him do that in that area before. Three bits of skill and expertise matched by Doak's clever and skillful (direction and weight) side-foot. The wit to do it rather than try and pick it up - very impressive indeed. Gilroy seems to benefit from some really bizarre things - cf Northampton at home but you've got to be there (cf Shanahan's tries)


Overall, some of our starting players looked like they hadn't had a game for a while (e.g. Andrew and Lyttle) but gave it lots, whilst others seemed a little short of confidence in certain parts of their game (e.g. Moxham and, to an extent, Curtis).

Other subs again good - McCann and Mick Kearney very effective. Madigan did very well to do something with the almost entirely unexpected pass he got !

Finally, what I liked most was the innovation that is clearly going on, whether forced or unforced, in the way Ulster are playing. Adding strings to our bow is no bad thing, especially when you've a bucket of injuries and 8 away with Ireland. Last season we would have lost that match trying only one method. This season, with pretty much a team that hadn't played either that much together and that much rugby, we won with a bonus point. Lots of leadership from Burns, Vermulen and O'Connor with what looks like a really good collective too. Let's hope we can beat Connacht, who I think have probably been the best performance against us this season and who will test us next Friday.
Nathan is quite good at those thing too. :lol:
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Re: Ulster v Scarlets Friday 7:35pm KO Premier Sports 1

Post by WestDr »

StandUp wrote: Sat Jan 29, 2022 4:37 pm
WestDr wrote: Sat Jan 29, 2022 2:29 pm
Dave wrote: Sat Jan 29, 2022 1:15 pm
Not much praise for Doak ever on this board. I challenge everyone in the same way. It's easier to slate the younglings apparently. Amazing composure from the young man in the last few outings.
Plenty of praise for Doak on this board. Plenty of criticism for other players too.... Of course, suggestions like with a 9, 12 and 15 that like to make the play, then perhaps the 10 doesn't need to as well can also been made. As has been noted perhaps Billy and Dan McF read this board too ? What Ulster fans do have a tendency to do is to identify Messiahs when perhaps we'd like to see a consistent run of miracles first.

I'd actually suggest that of all the players who could do with their injured colleagues returning, Neil Doak is one of them - he is only barely 20 and it's a fast, hard game at pro level. Once again, last night I thought Shanahan's energy @70 minutes was necessary, as was, to use another example, Brad Roberts' for John Andrew. Doak's kicking wasn't quite at it - 2 from 5 is well below his normal return. Given by what he missed this week and last week, right footers from 0-5 yards in from the left hand touch line seems to be something to work on. There was, however, quite some wind down the pitch last night and getting those right is probably just plenty of practice.

A few things Doak did last night that stood out for me:
  • His kicking - box kicks all a little awry/on the too long side - but again the wind ? Covered the place kicking - which I think explains go for the corner, not the 3 points at teh end. Although I'd have taken the 3 myself.
  • Passing - whilst crisp, variable - a lot goes at head height, not the bread basket. Again, practice. I assume the one in the second half that skidded along the ground was touched by a Scarlets player ?
  • Arm waving - tends to do a lot of this when it's not quite going his way. Scarlets seemed to spend a long time getting out from under and getting annoyed at Jaco Peyper for it had zero returns. Neil should be fortunate Nigel Owens has given up at this level :lol:
  • The side-foot forward from the Burns release inside.... was great to see Billy playing winger, and really impresssed that he made 15 yards at pace, didn't get taken into touch and released it onto the ground. Not seen him do that in that area before. Three bits of skill and expertise matched by Doak's clever and skillful (direction and weight) side-foot. The wit to do it rather than try and pick it up - very impressive indeed. Gilroy seems to benefit from some really bizarre things - cf Northampton at home but you've got to be there (cf Shanahan's tries)


Overall, some of our starting players looked like they hadn't had a game for a while (e.g. Andrew and Lyttle) but gave it lots, whilst others seemed a little short of confidence in certain parts of their game (e.g. Moxham and, to an extent, Curtis).

Other subs again good - McCann and Mick Kearney very effective. Madigan did very well to do something with the almost entirely unexpected pass he got !

Finally, what I liked most was the innovation that is clearly going on, whether forced or unforced, in the way Ulster are playing. Adding strings to our bow is no bad thing, especially when you've a bucket of injuries and 8 away with Ireland. Last season we would have lost that match trying only one method. This season, with pretty much a team that hadn't played either that much together and that much rugby, we won with a bonus point. Lots of leadership from Burns, Vermulen and O'Connor with what looks like a really good collective too. Let's hope we can beat Connacht, who I think have probably been the best performance against us this season and who will test us next Friday.
Nathan is quite good at those thing too. :lol:
Fair point - my error. FTAOD all 'Doaks' contained in my post refer to Nathan not Neil. Not that old enough to remember Neil playing. Was watching when he was a coach and seem to recall that (as referred to earlier on this thread) we couldn't wait to see the back of Doak-ball.
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Re: Ulster v Scarlets Friday 7:35pm KO Premier Sports 1

Post by Bart S »

WestDr wrote: Sat Jan 29, 2022 4:54 pm
StandUp wrote: Sat Jan 29, 2022 4:37 pm
WestDr wrote: Sat Jan 29, 2022 2:29 pm
Dave wrote: Sat Jan 29, 2022 1:15 pm
Not much praise for Doak ever on this board. I challenge everyone in the same way. It's easier to slate the younglings apparently. Amazing composure from the young man in the last few outings.
Plenty of praise for Doak on this board. Plenty of criticism for other players too.... Of course, suggestions like with a 9, 12 and 15 that like to make the play, then perhaps the 10 doesn't need to as well can also been made. As has been noted perhaps Billy and Dan McF read this board too ? What Ulster fans do have a tendency to do is to identify Messiahs when perhaps we'd like to see a consistent run of miracles first.

I'd actually suggest that of all the players who could do with their injured colleagues returning, Neil Doak is one of them - he is only barely 20 and it's a fast, hard game at pro level. Once again, last night I thought Shanahan's energy @70 minutes was necessary, as was, to use another example, Brad Roberts' for John Andrew. Doak's kicking wasn't quite at it - 2 from 5 is well below his normal return. Given by what he missed this week and last week, right footers from 0-5 yards in from the left hand touch line seems to be something to work on. There was, however, quite some wind down the pitch last night and getting those right is probably just plenty of practice.

A few things Doak did last night that stood out for me:
  • His kicking - box kicks all a little awry/on the too long side - but again the wind ? Covered the place kicking - which I think explains go for the corner, not the 3 points at teh end. Although I'd have taken the 3 myself.
  • Passing - whilst crisp, variable - a lot goes at head height, not the bread basket. Again, practice. I assume the one in the second half that skidded along the ground was touched by a Scarlets player ?
  • Arm waving - tends to do a lot of this when it's not quite going his way. Scarlets seemed to spend a long time getting out from under and getting annoyed at Jaco Peyper for it had zero returns. Neil should be fortunate Nigel Owens has given up at this level :lol:
  • The side-foot forward from the Burns release inside.... was great to see Billy playing winger, and really impresssed that he made 15 yards at pace, didn't get taken into touch and released it onto the ground. Not seen him do that in that area before. Three bits of skill and expertise matched by Doak's clever and skillful (direction and weight) side-foot. The wit to do it rather than try and pick it up - very impressive indeed. Gilroy seems to benefit from some really bizarre things - cf Northampton at home but you've got to be there (cf Shanahan's tries)


Overall, some of our starting players looked like they hadn't had a game for a while (e.g. Andrew and Lyttle) but gave it lots, whilst others seemed a little short of confidence in certain parts of their game (e.g. Moxham and, to an extent, Curtis).

Other subs again good - McCann and Mick Kearney very effective. Madigan did very well to do something with the almost entirely unexpected pass he got !

Finally, what I liked most was the innovation that is clearly going on, whether forced or unforced, in the way Ulster are playing. Adding strings to our bow is no bad thing, especially when you've a bucket of injuries and 8 away with Ireland. Last season we would have lost that match trying only one method. This season, with pretty much a team that hadn't played either that much together and that much rugby, we won with a bonus point. Lots of leadership from Burns, Vermulen and O'Connor with what looks like a really good collective too. Let's hope we can beat Connacht, who I think have probably been the best performance against us this season and who will test us next Friday.
Nathan is quite good at those thing too. :lol:
Fair point - my error. FTAOD all 'Doaks' contained in my post refer to Nathan not Neil. Not that old enough to remember Neil playing. Was watching when he was a coach and seem to recall that (as referred to earlier on this thread) we couldn't wait to see the back of Doak-ball.
I take it you were a relative latecomer to rugby then as Neil Doak only stopped playing about 15 years ago.
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Re: Ulster v Scarlets Friday 7:35pm KO Premier Sports 1

Post by big mervyn »

Something doesn’t add up here. WestDr has been waiting over 30 years to be a naturalized Ulsterman but he's too young to remember Doak Snr playing :scratch:
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Re: Ulster v Scarlets Friday 7:35pm KO Premier Sports 1

Post by StandUp »

big mervyn wrote: Sat Jan 29, 2022 6:35 pm Something doesn’t add up here. WestDr has been waiting over 30 years to be a naturalized Ulsterman but he's too young to remember Doak Snr playing :scratch:
He’s rumn’s alter ego. A sneaky second account perhaps?
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Re: Ulster v Scarlets Friday 7:35pm KO Premier Sports 1

Post by UlsterNo9 »

big mervyn wrote: Sat Jan 29, 2022 6:35 pm Something doesn’t add up here. WestDr has been waiting over 30 years to be a naturalized Ulsterman but he's too young to remember Doak Snr playing :scratch:
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Re: Ulster v Scarlets Friday 7:35pm KO Premier Sports 1

Post by solidarity »

My money's on Mr Trousers by another name.
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Re: Ulster v Scarlets Friday 7:35pm KO Premier Sports 1

Post by WestDr »

Bart S wrote: Sat Jan 29, 2022 6:16 pm I take it you were a relative latecomer to rugby then as Neil Doak only stopped playing about 15 years ago.
As I have said previously, been watching UR as a season-ticket holder since the 2008-09 season (the one with the HC match v Quins in Jan when amongst other events the wind blew the ball unaided by feet so far down the pitch towards the Aquinas End even Rory Best managed to score a try). Still miss the very sweaty and crowded marquee at the Memorial End.....

And before I am condemned to being Mr T's calmer alter ego (and mainly 'cos I fear him more than I fear Dave or Stand Up), I've been married to a farmer's daughter from south Co. L'derry for nearly 30 years..... spent 15 years saying 'mm', 'yes,' 'really' and 'ok ?' to her father - who had possibly one of the thickest mid-Ulster accents I've ever heard. Mind you, that was before I went to Kilrea Mart. Where speaking without opening your mouth and/or moving your teeth is a positive benefit.
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Re: Ulster v Scarlets Friday 7:35pm KO Premier Sports 1

Post by StandUp »

WestDr wrote: Sat Jan 29, 2022 8:48 pm
Bart S wrote: Sat Jan 29, 2022 6:16 pm I take it you were a relative latecomer to rugby then as Neil Doak only stopped playing about 15 years ago.
As I have said previously, been watching UR as a season-ticket holder since the 2008-09 season (the one with the HC match v Quins in Jan when amongst other events the wind blew the ball unaided by feet so far down the pitch towards the Aquinas End even Rory Best managed to score a try). Still miss the very sweaty and crowded marquee at the Memorial End.....

And before I am condemned to being Mr T's calmer alter ego (and mainly 'cos I fear him more than I fear Dave or Stand Up), I've been married to a farmer's daughter from south Co. L'derry for nearly 30 years..... spent 15 years saying 'mm', 'yes,' 'really' and 'ok ?' to her father - who had possibly one of the thickest mid-Ulster accents I've ever heard. Mind you, that was before I went to Kilrea Mart. Where speaking without opening your mouth and/or moving your teeth is a positive benefit.
Nope, can’t be rum’n. Punctuation is quite good.
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