F¥cking disgraceful bbc

[Cap'n Grumpy]

I don't think Paddy used "roast" if memory serves Rum

That is my memory too.

Paddy sent one innocuous message and was found not guilty as charged, but dismissed.

Gilroy sent a number of distasteful (shall we say?) messages despite not even being there (in response to messages from others, not Paddy), and served a two week suspension.

Paddy was dismissed because some young women came uninvited into his home, then uninvited went up to his bedroom after he had retired, alone, for the night. She then performed certain acts and the following morning cried rape. Much of this witnessed by another young independent female witness. Strangely the #webelieveher crowd don't believe her, but then her evidence doesn't fit their agenda.

If BBC hadn't broken an injunction to name Paddy and Stu, it is highly unlikely it would even have come to trial and would have been rightly dismissed without anyone's name officially coming out.

The fact that it went to trial because BBC named them, then used that as their defence against contempt of court for breaking the injunction, claiming it was in the public interest. A self-fulfilling prophecy.

The public weren't interested when they didn't know who was involved, and the fact that the cases were thrown out so quickly by a jury of their peers, shows there was nothing to actually be interested in. How could there be? The accusations were false.

Let me be clear - I do not defend in any way what Paddy and Stu did. It's not how I expect people to behave, but I know I'm of another generation and also know that many of the younger generation behave in this manner every weekend (or even during the week) often under the influence of alcohol sold by self righteous drinks companies, nothing is ever said about it, and no one gets sacked.I don't particularly like that behaviour, but why should two young men lose their jobs because one woman changed her mind and made false accusations the following day?

I understand that a similar situation arose elsewhere within Irish Rugby, was even filmed and spread on social media. The young lady was regretful the following day, but rather than falsely accuse some, she accepted her own responsibility for her own actions, and the IRFU hushed it all up and protected the players involved.

No one can tell me that the IRFU didn't apply a double standard.

But hey, we're raking over old ground and I have no doubt some of the revisionists have been at work for ages already.

That is my memory anyway.

[big mervyn]

Brilliant summary Cap'n

[Lurgan Lad]

To me the IRFU acted in their own financial interest, in the end it didn't matter whether PJ and SO were found innocent or guilty, and it is a horrible indictment on the society we now live in. Truly scary that people can potentially lose their livelihoods not based on their guilt or innocence, but on a lot of things outside their control. We have all said and done stupid things in our lives, quite often with drink involved, a lot more of it now unfortunately is caught on mobile phones.

[Lurgan Lad]

My memory of the phrase was 'there was a lot of spit', and I agree what Gilroy said was much worse than anything PJ said.

[StandUp]

I don't think Paddy used "roast" if memory serves Rum

That is my memory too.

Paddy sent one innocuous message and was found not guilty as charged, but dismissed.

Gilroy sent a number of distasteful (shall we say?) messages despite not even being there (in response to messages from others, not Paddy), and served a two week suspension.

Paddy was dismissed because some young women came uninvited into his home, then uninvited went up to his bedroom after he had retired, alone, for the night. She then performed certain acts and the following morning cried rape. Much of this witnessed by another young independent female witness. Strangely the #webelieveher crowd don't believe her, but then her evidence doesn't fit their agenda.

If BBC hadn't broken an injunction to name Paddy and Stu, it is highly unlikely it would even have come to trial and would have been rightly dismissed without anyone's name officially coming out.

The fact that it went to trial because BBC named them, then used that as their defence against contempt of court for breaking the injunction, claiming it was in the public interest. A self-fulfilling prophecy.

The public weren't interested when they didn't know who was involved, and the fact that the cases were thrown out so quickly by a jury of their peers, shows there was nothing to actually be interested in. How could there be? The accusations were false.

Let me be clear - I do not defend in any way what Paddy and Stu did. It's not how I expect people to behave, but I know I'm of another generation and also know that many of the younger generation behave in this manner every weekend (or even during the week) often under the influence of alcohol sold by self righteous drinks companies, nothing is ever said about it, and no one gets sacked.I don't particularly like that behaviour, but why should two young men lose their jobs because one woman changed her mind and made false accusations the following day?

I understand that a similar situation arose elsewhere within Irish Rugby, was even filmed and spread on social media. The young lady was regretful the following day, but rather than falsely accuse some, she accepted her own responsibility for her own actions, and the IRFU hushed it all up and protected the players involved.

No one can tell me that the IRFU didn't apply a double standard.

But hey, we're raking over old ground and I have no doubt some of the revisionists have been at work for ages already.

That is my memory anyway.

Superbly put skipper
However the truth didn’t matter at the time and still doesn’t matter to some people now.

[solidarity]

The Cap'n's summary along with Rocky's earlier post sum up my position well. The only thing I'd add is that, if the lads had made fulsome apologies and become 'advocates for good behaviour' their futures would have been very different and I'm surprised that no-one advised them to eat humble pie, become 'forgiven sinners' and even heroes. It's long past the time that they should have been 'rehabilitated' and I know I'm probably whistling in the wind but there could have been a way back if the two lads had grasped it. Maybe there still is.

[StandUp]

I do seem to remember the lads making an apology after the verdict but the media glossed over that very, very quickly.
But as you say solids, maybe they could have been more emphatic.
For me personally, I have a massive problem with the disgusting double standards of the media. Paddy and Stu were absolutely savaged yet Zebo and Murray were relatively ignored.
Then we have Jay Donnelly, who had sex with a child, shared an indecent picture of her and went to prison. Now he is regularly in the headlines for his goal scoring prowess, yet where is Amanda Ferguson and the rest of her ilk? Why don’t they have such venom for this case?

[Dave]

the WhatsApp message by Paddy was "there was a lot of spit!"
I believe that his message and the context in which it was sent demonstrate an appalling attitude towards women. In addition, I think the whole sorry episode showed that the young celebrity players (not just in rugby) had an attitude of entitlement and big-headedness that was also pretty contemptible. The IRFU and the former CEO of the Branch capitulated to some sponsors and the tide of public opinion at the time - the outcome being that they were forced to leave Ireland to continue playing professional rugby.
At the time I had some sympathy for them- but not much, I'm afraid. They deserved to be castigated for what they had done and said, once it was all out in the open. I could not, indeed cannot, find anything to justify their words and actions.
But a number of years have now passed and I find myself asking the question as to how much punishment, in the form of actual exile, is enough? I believe they both have been punished more than enough and that there comes a point in time when they should be forgiven. I think that time has now passed, even though I will never condone what they did and said.
I suspect that Paddy and Stuart will not ever come back here, for any reason and I'm sorry about that
As for the BBC and their cowardly stance, both then and now - utterly disgusting.

Which message that PJ sent offended you the most? Provide some details or never speak of it again. Sounds like more generalisation based on inaccurate information processing. Have you spoken to his mother, sister, other family members, friends etc to corroborate your generalisations on their attitudes about women? Is having an attitude punishable? Can you punish thoughts/private conversations?

Opinion is irrelevant, we need to deal in facts. It's only way to form reliable and robust conclusions. You write of 'words and actions' again no detail. What do you mean? How do you corroborate your assertions without being present to the events that took place? Are you using testimony only? Was that reliable? Alcohol a factor?

I'm all for it. Let's dig up 2016 all over again.

[Dave]

Some of this ire and bile seems nearly as curious as listening to a 2022 Jacobite still longing for the restoration of the Stuarts.

It's understandable that it still irks, Doc. We have to watch Burns every week when one of our own is ripping it up for London Irish.

[rumncoke]

That is some of the picture Caption not quite all ,

Making a false accusation and wasting police time is a crime , and the person making the accusation due the profession of her father couldn't be charged was another factor forcing the case into court.

It was a shambles -- basically of the accusers making assisted by a few ripe words by some at the party about her conduct .

[Cap'n Grumpy]

... The only thing I'd add is that, if the lads had made fulsome apologies and become 'advocates for good behaviour' their futures would have been very different and I'm surprised that no-one advised them to eat humble pie, become 'forgiven sinners' and even heroes. It's long past the time that they should have been 'rehabilitated' and I know I'm probably whistling in the wind but there could have been a way back if the two lads had grasped it. Maybe there still is.

Fulsome (and in my opinion, sincere) apologies were made at the correct and appropriate time. That time being at the conclusion of the trials because any earlier might have prejudiced their defence.

Making a false accusation and wasting police time is a crime , and the person making the accusation due the profession of her father couldn't be charged was another factor forcing the case into court.

Me thinks you are confusing the profession of her father with that of an uncle. I don't believe his profession had anything to do with the accuser not being charged.

Nor do I think it would be helpful if every alleged rape victim were charged just because those charged with the offence were found not guilty. If that were the case, no one who is raped would risk even reporting it to the police for fear of being charged themselves.

Rape truly is a horrendous and degrading crime, and all efforts must be made to bring those who are guilty of it to justice. I honestly think in Paddy and Stu's case though, this was a different ballgame entirely.

I repeat that rape is a horrible violent crime and perpetrators need to suffer the full consequences of the law, and nothing should be done that might inhibit anyone from coming forward to report, or as a witness.

[Cap'n Grumpy]

[.... stone the crows, who cares really about a 100% kicking record v Japan - of that great TV is not made.

Perhaps the percentage kicking record wasn't of much importance, although I do recall it was mentioned once or twice, but I think you will find that 90%+ of the footage shown was of tens kicking the ball - either penalties/conversions, or drop-goal attempts, and much was made of the outcomes - i.e. if successful and match-winning, or missed and cost Ireland a match/triple crown/grand slam.

The Beeb don't seem to think that of that great TV is not made. Of course BBC NI wouldn't know what great TV is given the tripe they produce such as thon Police thing set in Donaghadee, and the Paddy Raff show. They could be done under the trades descriptions act for describing that as comedy. As licence payers, we don't even get a chance to decide whether to buy it - only the choice not to watch what our money has been wasted on.

[big mervyn]

BBC Scotland has an awesome Comedy dept. So does OrTE. Why are we so consistently shyte. Take this place. We are the doyens of witty banter and repartee. Why can't BBCNI do it?

If anybody is going to challenge that, I'll leave you with "There's No Place Like Tyrone".

[bassbostoncup]

Mark Robson stole BBC NI comedy vaults and regurgitates them in 80 minute gold packages elsewhere.


FFS

[Jetstream]

NEW: Police Watchdog uncovers a culture of misogyny, harassment, racism and homophobia within the Metropolitan Police. The investigation into the conduct of officers at Charing Cross Police station found police joked about rape, sent racist and homophobic messages as ‘banter’.

The content of these whats app messages is appalling.
No talk of ang sackings though!