Craig Gilroy

Talk about the men in white, and everything Ulster!!

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Neill_M
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Craig Gilroy

Post by Neill_M »

4 game ban, misses Connacht, Dragons, Cardiff and Leinster games.

Ban started at 6 weeks with 2 weeks dropped off etc. Pleaded not guilty, contesting the charge so only got 2 weeks dropped v guilty plea which would have been 3 game ban.

https://twitter.com/andymcgeady/status/ ... 0Ykso2cJng
justinr73
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Re: Craig Gilroy

Post by justinr73 »

Did he get two games off by using Robson’s argument that Moxham should have tackled the fella properly first?
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Re: Craig Gilroy

Post by Neill_M »

justinr73 wrote: Fri Feb 04, 2022 5:17 pm Did he get two games off by using Robson’s argument that Moxham should have tackled the fella properly first?
Usual no doubt, good suit, said sorry, nice biscuits.
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Re: Craig Gilroy

Post by jean valjean »

Outcome over intent seems to be back in vogue. Wonder if we can get cooneys assault against Leicester looked at again.
WestDr
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Re: Craig Gilroy

Post by WestDr »

You have to laugh.The Law is an Ass.

Zebo gets off because someone else was tackling the player earlier that he then hit with his shoulder and no arms. Gilroy gets four weeks because someone else was tackling the player earlier.

From watching it both live and on replay, Gilroy seemed in two minds as to whether to come in and tackle the Scarlets player (on the basis that he's not convinced Moxham is going to have him) or stay wide on his winger/player (on the basis of what Moxham might achieve in the process of tackling the other player). As a consequence of his indecision, in real time he's caught neither being able to make a proper tackle nor fully retreat to avoid any contact.

For those that think I'm talking shyte, look at his feet, where his weight is and what direction Gilroy is moving in. In the second or so after Moxham finally makes the tackle and the player starts falling, Gilroy has an strong intimation of what is developing so tries to retreat. Without doubt it's a poor decision by Gilroy to find himself in that particular spot since the outcome is to get caught in no-mans land with the Scarlets player's head coming into contact with his (Gilroy's) shoulder. Another second and the Scarlets player's head would probably have hit Gilroy's knee - far more dangerous to the Scarlets player but not necessarily illegal.

The key decision is whether you decide Gilroy was trying to tackle. If you do, then from that Law 9:13 is applicable, so that then when the Scarlets player's head comes into contact with Gilroy's shoulder, having decided that in this instance that this is 'dangerous', then he starts off at 6 weeks. Jaco Peyper and the TMO (who in Olly Hodges isn't normally a shrinking violet in making his views known) seemed to come down on the side of what Gilroy was trying to avoid doing as he saw Moxham was going to succeed, and thus what happened was unfortunate rather than reckless. If however we are reffing solely the outcome (i.e. a player's head/shoulders come into contact with another's head therefore it's a red card) then Zebo should have been banned for 4 weeks too.

As much a travesty as the red card Jerome Kaino got in a Bath v Toulouse HC match a few years back for standing still when the Bath player head-butted him in the chest. Amazing to be penalised for not wrapping your arms when you're not actually trying to make a tackle !

Rant over !
Last edited by WestDr on Fri Feb 04, 2022 6:19 pm, edited 5 times in total.
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Re: Craig Gilroy

Post by big mervyn »

Pretty much how I saw it Doc.
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Re: Craig Gilroy

Post by Dave »

I knew this would happen. Ulster bias. Apparently they had Walker's crisps at the hearing. Tatyo cheese n onion was deemed 'foreign muck'. I'm talking the yellow bags too.
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Re: Craig Gilroy

Post by WestDr »

On a wider note, fascinating to see the flow chart on the Twitter page. A lot of interesting stuff there e.g. it's not intentional but it is reckless. And pleading guilty, irrespective of the merits of your case, gets you a reduction ? Andrei Vyshinsky would appreciate that approach to administrative efficiency and getting the 'right' result.
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Re: Craig Gilroy

Post by Jackie Brown »

WestDr wrote: Fri Feb 04, 2022 6:33 pm On a wider note, fascinating to see the flow chart on the Twitter page. A lot of interesting stuff there e.g. it's not intentional but it is reckless. And pleading guilty, irrespective of the merits of your case, gets you a reduction ? Andrei Vyshinsky would appreciate that approach to administrative efficiency and getting the 'right' result.
Yeah looks lovely, has anyone seen the one for Zebo?
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Dave
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Re: Craig Gilroy

Post by Dave »

Jackie Brown wrote:
WestDr wrote: Fri Feb 04, 2022 6:33 pm On a wider note, fascinating to see the flow chart on the Twitter page. A lot of interesting stuff there e.g. it's not intentional but it is reckless. And pleading guilty, irrespective of the merits of your case, gets you a reduction ? Andrei Vyshinsky would appreciate that approach to administrative efficiency and getting the 'right' result.
Yeah looks lovely, has anyone seen the one for Zebo?
Is it Simon - went to France for cash but cried about not getting picked for Ireland still not getting picked because he came back fat and slow - 'Zeebs' Zebo?

The outcome for that is: just insta banter by 30+ dose of shyte man baby who believes it whimsical to 'PlAy HiLaRioUs PraNkS'.
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Re: Craig Gilroy

Post by Bart S »

My (admittedly simplistic) take on this;-

- Could Gilroy have got a red for this? Yes, based on other decisions/interpretation and if away from home, baying crowd etc.
- Would Ulster have won with a BP if he had got a red? Debatable and probably unlikely
- Should Ulster be able to cope without him for those other games? Probably yes.

So on balance I would rather have had the yellow during the match and ban than red and no further sanction. Of course had to been Marty Moore, Vermeulen or certain others I may have had a different view on this.

Zebo’s sanction doesn’t look as bad because Ulster failed to take advantage of it and it therefore seems like no punishment.
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Re: Craig Gilroy

Post by justinr73 »

I reckon the tackle that bust my leg would have looked pretty bad in slow motion.

No hard feelings.

The lad got there as quick as he could.
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Re: Craig Gilroy

Post by BR »

Jackie Brown wrote: Fri Feb 04, 2022 7:32 pm
WestDr wrote: Fri Feb 04, 2022 6:33 pm On a wider note, fascinating to see the flow chart on the Twitter page. A lot of interesting stuff there e.g. it's not intentional but it is reckless. And pleading guilty, irrespective of the merits of your case, gets you a reduction ? Andrei Vyshinsky would appreciate that approach to administrative efficiency and getting the 'right' result.
Yeah looks lovely, has anyone seen the one for Zebo?
The graphic only covers the sanction process, not the determination of guilt, but it is a good point.

Problem for me with this decision :

They say it was reckless, therefore mitigation from red should not be applied, however the framework says 'highly reckless' . That is a very significant word - I mean show me a tackle that does not have an element of recklessness, and I will show you a missed tackle. IMHO Zebo was more reckless in so far as Lowry's drop in height was predictabke (he was already falling when Zebo lined him up, and it was up to Zebo to estimate how far he would drop).

As for the sanction, is it just to consider a lack of guilty plea, when CG was simply agreeing with the ref, who was the sole arbiter of fact on the night?

Beak: How do you plead?
CG: Guilty.
Beak: Weĺ done we'll knock a week off for that, but add 2 weeks for dissent.
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Jackie Brown
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Re: Craig Gilroy

Post by Jackie Brown »

Zebo has a history of tag teaming.
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Neill_M
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Re: Craig Gilroy

Post by Neill_M »

Has gone to tackle school and got the 4th game of his ban dropped, can play v Leinster.

Craig Gilroy has successfully taken part in the World Rugby HPC Coaching Intervention process, following his recent citing. He is now free to play from Sunday 6 March.
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