What would you do ?

[WestDr]

When not pontificating on this board, amongst other things, I sit on the management committee for part of the English hockey league system. A case came up the other month and I'd be interested in the views of board members.

The situation
Team A are playing Team B in a league match. At this competition level, umpires are appointed by the home team (Team A). The sport itself is 'amateur'.

During the match, no doubt during a 'in-match conversation' a player in Team A says "potato, potato" to a player from Team B.
Player from Team B, being from Ireland, takes this as an insult and pushes the player from Team A to the ground.
The umpire, following the rules around physical violence to players, red cards the player from Team B.
Team B tell the umpire that unless the red card is rescinded, they will walk off the pitch.
Red card is not rescinded, and Team B walks off the pitch.
[Note: unsure what, if any, penalty, is applied to the player from Team A at the time]

Next steps
The match is deemed to be abandoned, and Team B loses the match 5-0.
Team B appeals this decision, and loses the appeal (and also the £150 caution money it has to put up)
The player, supported by Team B & its club launches a disrepute process against the Team A & its Club for (a) the 'offensive statement' itself and (b) the lack of a robust internal process for taking such instances seriously etc.
Team A is found not to have a robust internal process to deal with 'statements made by playing members'.
The process is now closed.

Any thoughts ?

[justinr73]

I’m personally not a fan of physical violence nor would it ever occur to me to walk off the pitch, irrespective of the circumstances.

There are subtler ways of exiting the playing arena. I once found myself in the rain and gloom, wearing glasses and no helmet, facing a couple of Oxford College or University fast bowlers, who were a bit too sharp for me. I made sure I missed the first full one I (finally) received (don’t think I could reach it from six feet outside leg stump!)

So does the debate centre on whether or not reminding someone of their nation’s favourite vegetable is racist or not?

[big mervyn]

Did he actually say "potato potato"?

Yer man that took offence must have had a chip on his shoulder

[WestDr]

Justin73, yes, apparently it seems to. When I was first told the circumstances, I laughed. As did apparently at the time most of Team A. This did not, I understand, go down well at all with a number of members of Team B. They considered that laughing showed some degree of unconscious or endemic racism within that team and club, and that the failure of discplinary system to forgo the red card and the awarding of the result to Team A demonstrated institutional racism within the disciplinary system and the administrative hierarchy.

In their defence of the disrepute charge, Team A maintained that 'potato, potato' was a catchphrase of a well-known comedian some 20+ years ago. Any recollections of this ? No one however seemed to consider that the well-known 'potato, potato' (to demonstrate the same difference) usage might have been intended (unless that is what you meant BM) ?

More generally, it seems there is now a much finer line around what is 'sledging'..... but then if the target of the comment did lose both the bap and its contents, then it was certainly effective.... (as the original Big Mervyn might contend).

God forbid I ever call a Dane a Swede.

[BR]

I've heard the 'Potato, Potato' thing before, and it's usually just taking the pss out of our accents.

Probably depends on the circumstances, but if I was to say something like, "Goodness, gracious me!" to one of my indian brethren, it would more than likely be seen as racist.
On the other hand, I could probably get away with suffixing every sentence with, "... isn't it," when talking to my Welsh friends (if I had any left )

I have heard the argument that the potato reference is highly offensive, because it refers to the famine, but I tend to think that is people going out of their way to be offended.

Did Team B indicate what variety of potato they were talking about? Could this be a NI v RoI (or sectarian) thing, based on the underlying potato preferences of those populations?

Frankly I am of the opinion, that face-to-face sledging in sport, is either acceptable or it is not. The subject of the sledging, whether that be the opponent's race, gender, sexuality, baldness, obesity, wife, mother or simply sporting ability is not of great relevance. No doubt some people will cross even that line of acceptability, am I in denial to think that the sledger's own teammates would deal with anything too extreme?

[Dave]

I think Ice hockey has the right approach to these situations.

[big mervyn]

I've heard the 'Potato, Potato' thing before, and it's usually just taking the pss out of our accents.

Probably depends on the circumstances, but if I was to say something like, "Goodness, gracious me!" to one of my indian brethren, it would more than likely be seen as racist.
On the other hand, I could probably get away with suffixing every sentence with, "... isn't it," when talking to my Welsh friends (if I had any left )

I have heard the argument that the potato reference is highly offensive, because it refers to the famine, but I tend to think that is people going out of their way to be offended.

Did Team B indicate what variety of potato they were talking about? Could this be a NI v RoI (or sectarian) thing, based on the underlying potato preferences of those populations?

Frankly I am of the opinion, that face-to-face sledging in sport, is either acceptable or it is not. The subject of the sledging, whether that be the opponent's race, gender, sexuality, baldness, obesity, wife, mother or simply sporting ability is not of great relevance. No doubt some people will cross even that line of acceptability, am I in denial to think that the sledger's own teammates would deal with anything too extreme?

British Queens v Dublin Queens?

[big mervyn]

Your average Englishman wouldn't have the wit or the historical nous to make such a subtle reference to the famine.

Nope. Never heard "potato potato" used as a catchphrase.

My mates at Uni in England used to call me Bogman. Never had a problem with that.

[Dave]

I know a dude who got fired for writing the word 'spit'. Cancel hockey, imo.

[BR]

I've heard the 'Potato, Potato' thing before, and it's usually just taking the pss out of our accents.

Probably depends on the circumstances, but if I was to say something like, "Goodness, gracious me!" to one of my indian brethren, it would more than likely be seen as racist.
On the other hand, I could probably get away with suffixing every sentence with, "... isn't it," when talking to my Welsh friends (if I had any left )

I have heard the argument that the potato reference is highly offensive, because it refers to the famine, but I tend to think that is people going out of their way to be offended.

Did Team B indicate what variety of potato they were talking about? Could this be a NI v RoI (or sectarian) thing, based on the underlying potato preferences of those populations?

Frankly I am of the opinion, that face-to-face sledging in sport, is either acceptable or it is not. The subject of the sledging, whether that be the opponent's race, gender, sexuality, baldness, obesity, wife, mother or simply sporting ability is not of great relevance. No doubt some people will cross even that line of acceptability, am I in denial to think that the sledger's own teammates would deal with anything too extreme?

British Queens v Dublin Queens?

Not as simple as that.

Unfortunately I don't recall the details, but.there is a stark contrast between popular potato varieties north and south.

For sake of argument it's something like NI is 75% Maris Piper v RoI is 70% Queens. I'm afraid I would need someone from the potato industry to confirm both the percentages and the varieties, but I just remember the huge contrast. Apologies for such a wishy-washy post.

[waggonsroll]

For sake of argument it's something like NI is 75% Maris Piper v RoI is 70% Queens.


You could be in much more serious trouble if you had a typo with that sentence

Sent from my 5001D_EEA using Tapatalk

[BaggyTrousers]

How very amusing, I assume the delicate flower who took offence was probably Spud Murphy to his team?

Spud sounds like he had the wafer-thin skin of a new spud, certainly, he wouldn't be hard-baked easily and he'd need to get himself in front of a mirror, take a long hard look and realise he needs either to grow up or stay home - right back to the Septic Isle instead of fraternising with the eight century oppressors .

Chucky Armagh.

[solidarity]

Thin skins all round. If potato x 2 is racist, or whatever, what hope is there?

As for the question, I'd run with the outcome as is. It's madness, but I think techincally correct.

[big mervyn]

Right. I've got this.

Merv's essential guide to 6N vegatable insults.

Ireland: potato potato obviously
Scotland: neep neep
Wales: leek leek
France: oignon oignon
Engerland: asparagus asparagus
Italy: radicchio radicchio

[mid ulster maestro]

Ingredients for a good sporty salad there Merv. Unlike a honeymoon salad which is lettuce alone!