scrummaging..........whats the point?

Questions for the players, the management, the UAFC, the URSC or other supporters... Someone might answer you!! (and pigs might fly)

Moderator: Moderators

User avatar
Dave
Rí­ na Cúige Uladh
Posts: 24532
Joined: Fri Apr 08, 2011 4:27 pm

Re: scrummaging..........whats the point?

Post by Dave »

BR wrote:They tightened the application of the feeding laws 3 or 4 years ago (Remember? Rory was one of the few hookers who actually knew how to hook). It made almost no difference to the number of balls taken against the head, and arguably made the scrum less stable and caused more resets. But technically they are still the rules we are working under, including that hookers must hook.

I fear the IRB have fallen into the trap that criticism of how long a scrum takes to complete properly has prompted them to ignore the laws as long as the ball comes out and nobody gets hurt.

For me lineouts need to be addressed first. The ball should not be dead for this length of time. I'd actually like to see what would happen of they rebanned lifting. (Gut feeling it would be safer and more of a contest)
Attempting to win a scrum against the head through out hooking the opposition is a waste of energy. It's more profitable to set your front row to shove. If you have a dominant scrum you are more likely to win a penalty by forgetting about hooking. Conversely, an inferior scrum will want to be set in order to squarely face the incoming pressure. For me, I still enjoy the scrummaging contest without the hooking aspect being competitive. Its a fair trade off imo.
I have my own tv channel, what have you got?
User avatar
BR
Rí­ na Cúige Uladh
Posts: 18579
Joined: Mon Jun 13, 2005 11:12 am
Location: On a roll.

Re: scrummaging..........whats the point?

Post by BR »

Dave wrote: Sun Mar 06, 2022 5:28 pm
BR wrote:They tightened the application of the feeding laws 3 or 4 years ago (Remember? Rory was one of the few hookers who actually knew how to hook). It made almost no difference to the number of balls taken against the head, and arguably made the scrum less stable and caused more resets. But technically they are still the rules we are working under, including that hookers must hook.

I fear the IRB have fallen into the trap that criticism of how long a scrum takes to complete properly has prompted them to ignore the laws as long as the ball comes out and nobody gets hurt.

For me lineouts need to be addressed first. The ball should not be dead for this length of time. I'd actually like to see what would happen of they rebanned lifting. (Gut feeling it would be safer and more of a contest)
Attempting to win a scrum against the head through out hooking the opposition is a waste of energy. It's more profitable to set your front row to shove. If you have a dominant scrum you are more likely to win a penalty by forgetting about hooking. Conversely, an inferior scrum will want to be set in order to squarely face the incoming pressure. For me, I still enjoy the scrummaging contest without the hooking aspect being competitive. Its a fair trade off imo.
Of course, but the current rule is you have to hook. The current interpretation of that rule is you don't have to hook.

Like you, I enjoy a scrum. But I think a lot of outsiders/backs don't really consider play to be continuing until the ball magically comes out the back.
Can I come out from behind the sofa yet?
www.stoutboys.co.uk
User avatar
Cap'n Grumpy
Rí­ na Cúige Uladh
Posts: 15647
Joined: Thu Aug 14, 2008 4:21 pm
Location: second barrier up, at the half-way line ... or is the third?

Re: scrummaging..........whats the point?

Post by Cap'n Grumpy »

BR wrote: Sun Mar 06, 2022 8:20 pm Like you, I enjoy a scrum. But I think a lot of outsiders/backs don't really consider play to be continuing until the ball magically comes out the back.
Arguably it's not.

The scrum is a way of restarting the match, so you could argue that the match hasn't restarted until the scrum is completed.

And yes, I know you could argue the match has restarted once the ball is fed, or even before it is fed if there is an offence before the ball is put into the scrum, but then you could argue in those scenarios that the scrum didn't restart the game which is what it is meant to do?

Confused? :scratch:

You will be . . .




. . . in the next episode of "Soap". :shock:
I'm not arguing -
I'm just explaining why I'm right
Rovi Snave
Warrior
Posts: 1187
Joined: Sun May 13, 2012 1:14 pm
Location: Holywood, but preferably the Terrace

Re: scrummaging..........whats the point?

Post by Rovi Snave »

Simple solution- stop the clock when a knock on is given - start the clock when the ball is fed into the scrum - if scrum needs to be reset stop the clock again 👍
Finished
User avatar
Dave
Rí­ na Cúige Uladh
Posts: 24532
Joined: Fri Apr 08, 2011 4:27 pm

Re: scrummaging..........whats the point?

Post by Dave »

BR wrote:
Dave wrote: Sun Mar 06, 2022 5:28 pm
BR wrote:They tightened the application of the feeding laws 3 or 4 years ago (Remember? Rory was one of the few hookers who actually knew how to hook). It made almost no difference to the number of balls taken against the head, and arguably made the scrum less stable and caused more resets. But technically they are still the rules we are working under, including that hookers must hook.

I fear the IRB have fallen into the trap that criticism of how long a scrum takes to complete properly has prompted them to ignore the laws as long as the ball comes out and nobody gets hurt.

For me lineouts need to be addressed first. The ball should not be dead for this length of time. I'd actually like to see what would happen of they rebanned lifting. (Gut feeling it would be safer and more of a contest)
Attempting to win a scrum against the head through out hooking the opposition is a waste of energy. It's more profitable to set your front row to shove. If you have a dominant scrum you are more likely to win a penalty by forgetting about hooking. Conversely, an inferior scrum will want to be set in order to squarely face the incoming pressure. For me, I still enjoy the scrummaging contest without the hooking aspect being competitive. Its a fair trade off imo.
Of course, but the current rule is you have to hook. The current interpretation of that rule is you don't have to hook.

Like you, I enjoy a scrum. But I think a lot of outsiders/backs don't really consider play to be continuing until the ball magically comes out the back.
I do think the hooking is more ceremonial. If the other side doesn't want to compete there can be no unfair advantage. The ball being rolled into the second row is probably an exaggeration anyway.
I have my own tv channel, what have you got?
User avatar
Cap'n Grumpy
Rí­ na Cúige Uladh
Posts: 15647
Joined: Thu Aug 14, 2008 4:21 pm
Location: second barrier up, at the half-way line ... or is the third?

Re: scrummaging..........whats the point?

Post by Cap'n Grumpy »

Dave wrote: Mon Mar 07, 2022 3:17 pm I do think the hooking is more ceremonial. If the other side doesn't want to compete there can be no unfair advantage. The ball being rolled into the second row is probably an exaggeration anyway.
Indeed - it's more usually fed to the back row ...
I'm not arguing -
I'm just explaining why I'm right
User avatar
Dave
Rí­ na Cúige Uladh
Posts: 24532
Joined: Fri Apr 08, 2011 4:27 pm

Re: scrummaging..........whats the point?

Post by Dave »

Why doesn't the ref put it in....?

Discuss....
I have my own tv channel, what have you got?
User avatar
big mervyn
Rí­ na Cúige Uladh
Posts: 14360
Joined: Fri May 09, 2008 2:22 pm
Location: Overlooking the pitch (til they built the old new stand)

Re: scrummaging..........whats the point?

Post by big mervyn »

Cap'n Grumpy wrote: Mon Mar 07, 2022 9:09 pm
Dave wrote: Mon Mar 07, 2022 3:17 pm I do think the hooking is more ceremonial. If the other side doesn't want to compete there can be no unfair advantage. The ball being rolled into the second row is probably an exaggeration anyway.
Indeed - it's more usually fed to the back row ...
Usually 'round the openside's left ankle if quick ball is required.

... maybe that is a slight exaggeration :lol:
Volunteer at an animal sanctuary; it will fill you with joy , despair, but most of all love, unconditional love of the animals.
Big Neville Southall
User avatar
Dave
Rí­ na Cúige Uladh
Posts: 24532
Joined: Fri Apr 08, 2011 4:27 pm

Re: scrummaging..........whats the point?

Post by Dave »

big mervyn wrote:
Cap'n Grumpy wrote: Mon Mar 07, 2022 9:09 pm
Dave wrote: Mon Mar 07, 2022 3:17 pm I do think the hooking is more ceremonial. If the other side doesn't want to compete there can be no unfair advantage. The ball being rolled into the second row is probably an exaggeration anyway.
Indeed - it's more usually fed to the back row ...
Usually 'round the openside's left ankle if quick ball is required.

... maybe that is a slight exaggeration Image
The 9 just keeps it. Walks round the back and spins it away.
I have my own tv channel, what have you got?
User avatar
solidarity
Chancellor to the King
Posts: 3884
Joined: Sat Jun 01, 2013 7:00 pm

Re: scrummaging..........whats the point?

Post by solidarity »

Sometimes scrummaging is more about forcing a penalty than simply winning the ball and restarting the game and that's a legitimate thing to do.
User avatar
big mervyn
Rí­ na Cúige Uladh
Posts: 14360
Joined: Fri May 09, 2008 2:22 pm
Location: Overlooking the pitch (til they built the old new stand)

Re: scrummaging..........whats the point?

Post by big mervyn »

solidarity wrote: Tue Mar 08, 2022 7:56 pm Sometimes scrummaging is more about forcing a penalty than simply winning the ball and restarting the game and that's a legitimate thing to do.
The idea of "forcing a penalty" doesn't really sit well with me.
Volunteer at an animal sanctuary; it will fill you with joy , despair, but most of all love, unconditional love of the animals.
Big Neville Southall
User avatar
solidarity
Chancellor to the King
Posts: 3884
Joined: Sat Jun 01, 2013 7:00 pm

Re: scrummaging..........whats the point?

Post by solidarity »

I'm not thrilled either, Merv, but it is as legitimate as anything else within the laws of the game.
User avatar
Dave
Rí­ na Cúige Uladh
Posts: 24532
Joined: Fri Apr 08, 2011 4:27 pm

Re: scrummaging..........whats the point?

Post by Dave »

The penalty is the just desserts for a strong scrum. It is what makes it such a weapon if you have a good one.
I have my own tv channel, what have you got?
Bobbievee
Warrior
Posts: 1143
Joined: Wed Feb 27, 2019 11:36 pm

Re: scrummaging..........whats the point?

Post by Bobbievee »

Spot on Dave. But there are not many sports which have a special base whose only purpose is to " force penalties" ........And as a consequence have players ( the front 3?) Whose purpose has become bringing about penalties.........if necessary by cheating?
Note the increasing celebrations when penalties are " forced"
Bobbievee
Warrior
Posts: 1143
Joined: Wed Feb 27, 2019 11:36 pm

Re: scrummaging..........whats the point?

Post by Bobbievee »

" special phase " instead of "special base" base
:duh: :scratch:
Post Reply