Ulster v Toulouse Sat Apr 16 8pm KO BT Sport 2

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Dave
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Re: Ulster v Toulouse Sat Apr 16 8pm KO BT Sport 2

Post by Dave »

For the past number of seasons there has been a pivotal match in the season that has been winnable given the situation, such as last night.

The Leinster QF at the Aviva.
Hariyquinns, throwing the game away at the death.
Leicester 2nd half capitulation last season.

You can go back further to the Diack final if you want.

Every year it happens. The same old excuses are trotted out. Toulose of course have a much better squad. With the red card in the first leg, we had a unique opportunity. It was an opportunity to knock them out. I thought there were some magnificent performances last night. The likes of Lowry, Hume, Baloucoune, McCloskey were making significant inroads. A world class piece of skill from Ethan McIlroy The pack had parity in the scrum, lineout secure, winning turnovers etc. We can compete, a particularly at home.

Another season, another match Ulster should have won but didn't. Poor officiating does not help. The clearout on McCloskey was at least a pen.

I have no expectations that Ulster would win anything, in terms of silverware. Taking these opportunities is the only way to increase revenue for Ulster. Some folk are saying how we supposedly would not have progressed anyway. When you miss these opportunities you reduce the capacity to increase the pot from which to recruit (I know the irfu have control here).



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big mervyn
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Re: Ulster v Toulouse Sat Apr 16 8pm KO BT Sport 2

Post by big mervyn »

Cap'n Grumpy wrote: Sun Apr 17, 2022 4:47 pm
rumncoke wrote: Sun Apr 17, 2022 8:29 am note the difference at the end was only 1 point in favour of Toulouse .
It would be remiss of me if I didn't acknowledge that you did get something right. :thumleft:

Well done for noticing the aggregate scoreline.

Even a stopped clock is right twice a day.
Some eejit on Bakebook who "was pretty good at maths 70 years ago" :lol: was arguing that it was actually 2 points because a single point would have given Ulster a draw :scratch:
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Re: Ulster v Toulouse Sat Apr 16 8pm KO BT Sport 2

Post by HammerTime »

Dave wrote: Sun Apr 17, 2022 5:06 pm For the past number of seasons there has been a pivotal match in the season that has been winnable given the situation, such as last night.

The Leinster QF at the Aviva.
Hariyquinns, throwing the game away at the death.
Leicester 2nd half capitulation last season.

You can go back further to the Diack final if you want.

Every year it happens. The same old excuses are trotted out. Toulose of course have a much better squad. With the red card in the first leg, we had a unique opportunity. It was an opportunity to knock them out. I thought there were some magnificent performances last night. The likes of Lowry, Hume, Baloucoune, McCloskey were making significant inroads. A world class piece of skill from Ethan McIlroy Image The pack had parity in the scrum, lineout secure, winning turnovers etc. We can compete, a particularly at home.

Another season, another match Ulster should have won but didn't. Poor officiating does not help. The clearout on McCloskey was at least a pen.

I have no expectations that Ulster would win anything, in terms of silverware. Taking these opportunities is the only way to increase revenue for Ulster. Some folk are saying how we supposedly would not have progressed anyway. When you miss these opportunities you reduce the capacity to increase the pot from which to recruit (I know the irfu have control here).
Yes we have missed out on/handed Munster a massive payday which will affect recruitment quality for 2-3 seasons to come.
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Re: Ulster v Toulouse Sat Apr 16 8pm KO BT Sport 2

Post by StandUp »

big mervyn wrote: Sun Apr 17, 2022 5:28 pm
Cap'n Grumpy wrote: Sun Apr 17, 2022 4:47 pm
rumncoke wrote: Sun Apr 17, 2022 8:29 am note the difference at the end was only 1 point in favour of Toulouse .
It would be remiss of me if I didn't acknowledge that you did get something right. :thumleft:

Well done for noticing the aggregate scoreline.

Even a stopped clock is right twice a day.
Some eejit on Bakebook who "was pretty good at maths 70 years ago" :lol: was arguing that it was actually 2 points because a single point would have given Ulster a draw :scratch:
Bakebook - the shallow end of the gene pool.
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Re: Ulster v Toulouse Sat Apr 16 8pm KO BT Sport 2

Post by paddybrown »

One thing I think is a sign of progress.

Last season, when Marcell Coetzee left and John Cooney got injured, the wheels fell off our season, which suggests they were carrying us to an unhealthy level. Duane Vermeulen was signed to replace Coetzee, but he didn't actually arrive until November, and Cooney's been injured a lot, so we've had to learn how to win without them. We beat Leinster away without Vermeulen, and at home without Cooney, thanks to Nick Timoney stepping up and Nathan Doak's arrival. When he's been fit, Cooney hasn't seemed to have felt the need to do everything himself quite so much. I think we're seeing leadership and initiative spreading more widely throughout the team, and that's got to be a good thing.
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Re: Ulster v Toulouse Sat Apr 16 8pm KO BT Sport 2

Post by Bobbievee »

Cap'n Grumpy wrote: Sun Apr 17, 2022 4:47 pm
rumncoke wrote: Sun Apr 17, 2022 8:29 am I knew we were in trouble when he the REF blew the first penalty and for not releasing and gave it to Toulouse who then reduced the lead from 3-6 .

The Ulster player had released the ball and the player holding was actually Toulouse . It was a decision made in the dressing room --- "first breakdown I'm blowing for non release "-- regardless ---
Seriously Rumn? Do you actually believe this guff?
rumncoke wrote: Sun Apr 17, 2022 8:29 am That said on the night Toulouse were the better side but were the better side over two legs .
So in your opinion Toulouse were better on the night and over both legs, so what's yer beef? :scratch:
rumncoke wrote: Sun Apr 17, 2022 8:29 am Both sides had to play with 14 men for part of the game of the two red Cards Ulsters loss of a prop was much more telling then their loss of a wing especially in the last 10 minutes when Ulster also lost their fresh second row.
Ulster's red card came after 65 minutes. Toulouse's came after 10. Hmmm?

That said - if the players hadn't infringed like they did, they wouldn't have been carded, so they cannae complain.
rumncoke wrote: Sun Apr 17, 2022 8:29 am note the difference at the end was only 1 point in favour of Toulouse .
It would be remiss of me if I didn't acknowledge that you did get something right. :thumleft:

Well done for noticing the aggregate scoreline.

Even a stopped clock is right twice a day.
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Re: Ulster v Toulouse Sat Apr 16 8pm KO BT Sport 2

Post by Bangors »

Just watched the game again.
Great match BUT the penalty against Hume for off feet was marginal to say the least particularly as there was no french player in a position to compete for the ball.
On such fine margins games are decided
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Dave
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Re: Ulster v Toulouse Sat Apr 16 8pm KO BT Sport 2

Post by Dave »

Bangors wrote:Just watched the game again.
Great match BUT the penalty against Hume for off feet was marginal to say the least particularly as there was no french player in a position to compete for the ball.
On such fine margins games are decided
SUFTUM
Not many French players there tbf! I remember at the time it seemed harsh. Hume went in as a Toulose player was there but said player stepped back. Hume slips forward as a result. Straight back onto his feet again into the guard position with no Toulose in sight. Absolutely no advantage gained and no player impeded. Officiated like a man who has little experience of entering the tackle/ruck area.
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Re: Ulster v Toulouse Sat Apr 16 8pm KO BT Sport 2

Post by Bangors »

As I said “on such fine margins games are decided”
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Re: Ulster v Toulouse Sat Apr 16 8pm KO BT Sport 2

Post by Silverstu »

As tough as it was to lose that match I'm not despondent - this Ulster side aren't at their peak yet. Lots of players are just coming into their own now and have years to build up experience and age presence and they are so good already. Lowry, Hume, McIlroy, Balacoune, Marcus Rea and O'Toole are going to keep getting better. Then you have the potential [some more than others] in Doak, Tom Stewart, Stewart Moore, Callum Reid, Izzy and McCann to solidify their place in the first team and there are lads below that again- Aaron Sexton, Rueben Crothers, Harry Sheridan, Scott Wilson, Jude Postlethwaite. There is enough talent coming through, will they make it? Who knows, but there is plenty of potential within the existing squad and sitting just outside it too.
I hope we smash Munster this weekend go full on to win the league.
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Re: Ulster v Toulouse Sat Apr 16 8pm KO BT Sport 2

Post by rumncoke »

Grumps

The loss of a forward is much more telling than the loss of back especially if the forward is carded late in the game and that forward is in the front row

You have to bring back a front row -- to bring back that front you have to lose either a second row or a back row forward normally your most knackered but you have two back rows doing the work of three ( not a great place to be )

Then Treadwell got injured and another unfresh player had to come on

Thus instead of facing the last 10 minutes with 8 forwards and 5 five fresh subs Ulster were playing with 7 forwards and only 3 fresh forwards facing an 8 man pack with 5 fresh players . Not a position you want to be when chasing a result.

The alternative truth is that Toulouse faced Ulster in both games for 80 minutes with 8 forwards albeit they had 70 minutes with a disrupted backline which may have affected their defence which provided Baloucoune the opportunity to score 3 trys in the first game -- which while an excellent result first time round meant that Toulouse were pre-warned of the danger he could be and tighten their defence for the second game. Thus any advantage of facing a backline minus a wing in the first game was lost in the return fixture .
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Re: Ulster v Toulouse Sat Apr 16 8pm KO BT Sport 2

Post by Bobbievee »

As consolation probably best to remember the 16 teams who weren't even in the Heineken last 16.....And there are some excellent teams amongst them.
And another consolation...for what it is worth........even Austin Healey admitted on By sport that the ruck just immediately ahead of he Toulose try was a " cold stone Ulster penalty'".

Also like to hear him acknowledgment of the challenge of playing at Kingspan as a visitor.

Let's enjoy what we have, encourage who we have, and move on!
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Re: Ulster v Toulouse Sat Apr 16 8pm KO BT Sport 2

Post by StandUp »

Moving on is not something we do well roun here. :lol:
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Re: Ulster v Toulouse Sat Apr 16 8pm KO BT Sport 2

Post by rumncoke »

Some referees decide how they want the game to be played before walking on to the pitch.

Thus they will blow for" holding 'in the at the earliest opportunity -- I did not to mean to infer he was out to penalise Ulster -- Ulster just happened to be the first easy target for" holding ."

The referee was of the sort with the mindset " i am the one with the whistle -- and I want both sides to know I am the one who makes the decisions .

As I pointed out Henderson kept at him and got penalised 10 metres -- the man was no Nigel Owens .

Sometimes it is fine having a Referee who has self belief -- sometimes unfortunately he will get it wrong but is never willing to admit.

In my opinion he carded the wrong player -- if anyone was to carded it should have been Herring but he got the Lowry decision right .

The problem with " I am in charge "referees is that they have a tendency to be inconsistent compare the speed of The first" holding " to the the failure to Penalise Toulouse for "holding " before the try.

It is that inconsistency which in my opinion leads to the view the " his first penalty against Ulster -- was a changing room penalty -- Ulster were not the target of the decision -- the offence was the target
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Re: Ulster v Toulouse Sat Apr 16 8pm KO BT Sport 2

Post by big mervyn »

We're a few old Ulster legends participating in that mixed ability rugby exhibition at HT?
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