Ulster v Toulouse Sat Apr 16 8pm KO BT Sport 2

[Dharper]

We are a v good club, however when it comes to the business end of any competition we are short of quality/depth, and nous to win….this isn’t criticism so much as harsh reality (in my opinion).
I listened to the game on the radio. Dan Tuohy was pragmatic but honest in his appraisal- stated the bench really added v little to the performance-clearly disrupted by TOT red card, BB injury Treadwell HIA, even roberts and Doak didn’t get on.
We need a proper 23, with no drop off in quality, and everyone needs using. Trying to beat one of the best clubs in the world with a salary level prob double ulsters, with only 19/20 guys over 2 games is close to impossible. Take heart from the fact we have been done by kolbe & DuPont in the last 2 ties.
I love the romance/passion and values of provincial rugby - but it’s a professional sport. We are taking a knife to a gun fight.
Munster are being financially propped up, Leinster between demographics, a superb set up, the benefits of private sponsorship and then added central contracts supplementing their squad finances means it is comparing chalk and cheese….they are the only side from Ireland with a winners chance in Europe. The playing field ain’t level in Ireland nevermind abroad.
How can we broach this - we can’t outbid another province for an internal player, we need Irfu consent for NIQ. I’d say it’s a system totally at odds with provincial Euro success, unless with a large local player pool, or private money and Irfu goodwill to agree it.
I heard the ulster rugby podcast recently (yeah I know it’s poor)…..but a very interesting point was made……when talking about Lowry & Balacoune contracts. Clearly v good news…..the guy said essentially- yep never in doubt, but let’s be honest, no one ever leaves. Now those lads are top class but more widely Do we re sign players who lack quality, or are finished? Should we be signing guys to do a job at URC level knowing that’s their ceiling? Do we sufficiently look outside ulster IQ exile?
I have no real criticism of the lads yes there was mistakes over 160 mins against a world class club….but the deck was loaded against them we pushed Toulouse all the way.
Special mention to the crowd…..plenty of noise coming through the radio when the lads lifted the tempo.

[justinr73]

That’s a pretty tough one to take.

I suppose it’s why we all, perversely, love sport.

[Deraless]

We had an excellent opportunity to progress but at the end of the day Toulouse were/are a better team. Not saying they totally deserved to win but win they did. They were clinical. From our perspective:
1) Take the points.
2) Dont kick away possession to one of the most dangerous back lines in European rugby.
3/4/5) Dont give away stupid points/penalties/cards.
We messed up on all fronts.
With the Ulster specs on there's always a bit of criticism on ref watch like obstruction at line outs, not letting our jumper get back to ground and penalising "in-the-side" or going off feet for Ulster at the first opportunity but Toulouse do it and nothing is given. Having said that he could easily have carded Herring as well as O'Toole. I think the mitigation for Herring was that O'Toole had already gubbed him! He did well not to card Lowry but I've seen them given.
Anyway, as others said we weren't gonna win the bugger and in the grand scheme it was one of our better performances. At least we turned up and got stuck in. The crowd did its part too.

On the subject of the crowd, and maybe I was just in 5h1t form after, but the number of absolutely hammered teens lolling about was incredible. Saw a couple ejected giving the stewards the verbals, had one girl yelling into my face that she had seen "Tamanack" and seemed quite pleased with herself, another telling Ramos that they were "f**kin lucky" and several slashing in hedges in Onslow Parade. What a time to be alive!

[Deraless]

I thought another crucial point in the match I forgot to mention was when BB went off and Cooney missed his touch from the penalty. When a tie is decided by 1 point after 160 mins of rugby it will always be down to fine margins.

[justinr73]

I think Billy was still on the field at that point but I know what you mean.

I’m not sure I agree about the taking the points thing though.

Did we turn down many straightforward shots at goal over the two legs?

I reckon we should have kicked the last pen we scored from into the corner because Toulouse were always likely to get over in the last ten.

[HwoodMike2umate]

I no who I blame

[Cap'n Grumpy]

I reckon we should have kicked the last pen we scored from into the corner because Toulouse were always likely to get over in the last ten.

Junior and I discussed this at the time. We agreed with it at the time - or at least understood it. It took us out to 6 points again rather than 3, but both of us commented that there was almost certainly a try still in Toulouse - but they would at least they would have to convert it to win. We saw Marcus Smith miss a relative sitter for Quins to win yesterday, so it was fingers crossed.

Must admit I was amazed at the amount of backchat the ref took from Toulouse players. Midway(???) through second half he had penalised them on about their 10m line and one of their players (not Dupont, so no "Captain's privilege") stood shouting at ref, who continued to talk back to him. It did not look friendly. We were shouting at the ref to march them back 10. A few minutes later, he penalised us on their 22 and someone must have said something, because he marched us back 10.

I wondered if it had dawned on him that players shouldn't be talking to him that way, and unfortunately we were on the wrong side of that. I did note that on Dupont's try, Hendo seemed pretty angry and animated at him but I guess as captain he let him say what he had to say, but didn't even bother to check if Hendo's complaints were justified. It looked like a blow by the ball-carrier to Tredder's head that floored him, but it was right in front of the ref so he probably thought he'd had a good look at it, but maybe he should have looked. I'm not sure if there was anything in it, but we are seeing more and more of ball-carriers leading with a stiff fore-arm which to me is just as dangerous as a tackler on the ball-carrier.

Moan over. Not good enough. Move on.

Like we've been saying for the past 20+ years - there's always next year.

[Cap'n Grumpy]

I no who I blame

Yep - that was some of the inane drivel I had beside me all match last night.

[rumncoke]

I knew we were in trouble when he the REF blew the first penalty and for not releasing and gave it to Toulouse who then reduced the lead from 3-6 .

The Ulster player had released the ball and the player holding was actually Toulouse . It was a decision made in the dressing room --- "first breakdown I'm blowing for non release "-- regardless --- he was a" Mister Big Guy in the middle " -- who was never going to listen to the players a fact Hendy failed to realise -- and got penalises 10 metres on one occasion and by continuing to" ask " was actually making a bad situation worse.

He got the first decision wrong and undoing so motivated Toulouse inside the first two minutes --- note the difference at the end was only 1 point in favour of Toulouse .

That said on the night Toulouse were the better side but were the better side over two legs . Both sides had to play with 14 men for part of the game of the two red Cards Ulsters loss of a prop was much more telling then their loss of a wing especially in the last 10 minutes when Ulster also lost their fresh second row.

I would have played money on McIlroy not scoring -- and he went and scored twice -- it still fails to change my opinion that he has talent -- but the x factor is missing --

The x factor that Baloucoune has and Toulouse feared and ensured their defence ( or attack ) did not allow the ball to go to Toulouse hardly kicked a ball at the Ulster back 3 all night and when they did it was at McIlroy not Lowry or Baloucoune.

Only good thing -- LIVERPOOL won

[MightyRearranger]

It was a fairly bitter one to swallow alright; so close and was looking forward to it this year especially with the prospect of the knock-out inter-pros, which would have been incredibly tasty. The fact that there was (in my opinion) a really bad decision so close to the death where we should have had a turnover penalty in the build up to their try made it feel like we were robbed at the time, though in retrospect we had a few fortunate breaks ourselves over the 160 minutes (Lowry staying on and the forward pass before Baloucoune's second try last week come to mind), so don't think we can really blame the officiating in any merit. As with the game against the Stormers, we just need to improve the things within our control so moments like that can't be the difference.

Can't fault the effort or intensity and from where I was standing it was the best atmosphere in years. Brought a few casual friends along with me, one of whom said they might buy a season ticket off the back of it. I'll wait until they've done it to let them know that it's not like that every week... Must have been an amazing game for a neutral.

[rumncoke]

I see the Lowry incident mentioned above the fact is the dangerous player was the Toulouse player -- he jumped early --high and long with his foot out in front straight at Lowry. Lowry could easily be on a visit to a dentist this morning . He who jumps last is not always the player at fault.

The ref actually got the call right it wasn't a tackle Lowry was legally jumping for the ball. At present there is nothing in the laws giving any player on either side sole right to a ball in the air thus any decision based on dangerous play with two players in the air is a lottery and an assumption of dangerous play when one player is on the ground -- because the actual tackle is 9 times out of 10 a tackle which has been mistimed which would not be dangerous if the player waited for the ball to come down and call mark as in days of old.

The player who makes the tackle dangerous is the one who jumps -- but what the hell -- lets make the game more dangerous and encourage guys to jump for the ball.

[MightyRearranger]

It'll also be interesting to see what the format of the competition will be next year. The 'pool' stage this year was a bit of a joke, but the two legged knock out rugby is something I wouldn't mind seeing continued.

[rumncoke]

Mighty

The problem is that a home and away fixture knock out format reduces income generated by pool games and would encourage possible time wasting in the first leg for teams playing away from home.

i am a bit like Dan when you play pool games home and away -- and then get to knock out -- home and away -- could be a thugs paradise

[Pimpmac]

It was a fairly bitter one to swallow alright; so close and was looking forward to it this year especially with the prospect of the knock-out inter-pros, which would have been incredibly tasty. The fact that there was (in my opinion) a really bad decision so close to the death where we should have had a turnover penalty in the build up to their try made it feel like we were robbed at the time, though in retrospect we had a few fortunate breaks ourselves over the 160 minutes (Lowry staying on and the forward pass before Baloucoune's second try last week come to mind), so don't think we can really blame the officiating in any merit. As with the game against the Stormers, we just need to improve the things within our control so moments like that can't be the difference.

Can't fault the effort or intensity and from where I was standing it was the best atmosphere in years. Brought a few casual friends along with me, one of whom said they might buy a season ticket off the back of it. I'll wait until they've done it to let them know that it's not like that every week... Must have been an amazing game for a neutral.

I was sat on that side of the ground and saw that breakdown and agree wholeheartedly that it was a penalty turnover. The ref gave their player an age on the ground with a number of Ulster players over the ball. It came out eventually in Toulouse’s side and 20 seconds later they score a try.

These are the fine lines in professional rugby and whilst yea people can argue that teams shouldn’t have to rely on that to win a game, but decisions like this are at the heart of it. There are fine lines at this level and a turnover in that instance would in my opinion have prevented their final try and more than likely would have ensured an Ulster victory. So you can carve it up whatever way you want, but to me that was the deciding factor last night and a ref who previously had been pretty quick to award penalties on the ground didn’t for this one moment. In that moment the game was lost. That’s not the players fault, they did all they could and whilst not ‘robbed’ that decision ensured victory was taken away from them.

[turko]

It was a fairly bitter one to swallow alright; so close and was looking forward to it this year especially with the prospect of the knock-out inter-pros, which would have been incredibly tasty. The fact that there was (in my opinion) a really bad decision so close to the death where we should have had a turnover penalty in the build up to their try made it feel like we were robbed at the time, though in retrospect we had a few fortunate breaks ourselves over the 160 minutes (Lowry staying on and the forward pass before Baloucoune's second try last week come to mind), so don't think we can really blame the officiating in any merit. As with the game against the Stormers, we just need to improve the things within our control so moments like that can't be the difference.

Can't fault the effort or intensity and from where I was standing it was the best atmosphere in years. Brought a few casual friends along with me, one of whom said they might buy a season ticket off the back of it. I'll wait until they've done it to let them know that it's not like that every week... Must have been an amazing game for a neutral.

I was sat on that side of the ground and saw that breakdown and agree wholeheartedly that it was a penalty turnover. The ref gave their player an age on the ground with a number of Ulster players over the ball. It came out eventually in Toulouse’s side and 20 seconds later they score a try.

These are the fine lines in professional rugby and whilst yea people can argue that teams shouldn’t have to rely on that to win a game, but decisions like this are at the heart of it. There are fine lines at this level and a turnover in that instance would in my opinion have prevented their final try and more than likely would have ensured an Ulster victory. So you can carve it up whatever way you want, but to me that was the deciding factor last night and a ref who previously had been pretty quick to award penalties on the ground didn’t for this one moment. In that moment the game was lost. That’s not the players fault, they did all they could and whilst not ‘robbed’ that decision ensured victory was taken away from them.

Agree with this. And to make it worse following the kick off he gave holding on penalty against us in their 22. The latter probably was holding on but then so must have been the former.
Fine lines as you say.
All you want is consistency in the decision making, that way as a player you know where the line is