Ulster v Munster Friday April 22 7:35pm KO BBC2NI / RTE2 / Premier Sports 2 / URC TV / Super Sport

Talk about the men in white, and everything Ulster!!

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Bart S
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Re: Ulster v Munster Friday April 22 7:35pm KO BBC2NI / RTE2 / Premier Sports 2 / URC TV / Super Sport

Post by Bart S »

Big-al wrote: Sun Apr 24, 2022 3:44 pm A huge problem is being forgotten about. Ulster have probably lost out on 2 home QF sell outs in the last 2 losses. A lot of money being lost through appalling performances.
Al - fair enough about Friday night but I think it's a bit much to describe either of the Toulouse performances as "appalling."

I still think the home qf is likely to rest on whether ulster can win the next 2 games. But even then, your point would stand if ulster miss out on a home semi.
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Re: Ulster v Munster Friday April 22 7:35pm KO BBC2NI / RTE2 / Premier Sports 2 / URC TV / Super Sport

Post by flatpass »

Big-al wrote: Sun Apr 24, 2022 3:44 pm A huge problem is being forgotten about. Ulster have probably lost out on 2 home QF sell outs in the last 2 losses. A lot of money being lost through appalling performances.
1 appalling performance, not 2. The performance against Toulouse (the European champions) was one where the players left everything out on the pitch.
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Re: Ulster v Munster Friday April 22 7:35pm KO BBC2NI / RTE2 / Premier Sports 2 / URC TV / Super Sport

Post by Bart S »

No disrespect to Tredwell but his 6nations involvement outside of the Italy game is an indication that Ireland does not have an abudance of good locks currently outside of Ryan, Beirne and Hendy. With RG Snyman and Jenkins in place I can't see the irfu allowing a 3rd niq there.

Ulster had 5 niq's in the side which made the 2012 final - 3 world Cup winners, a tri nations winner and a springbok super rugby winner (Pedrie,). Those days are clearly over. 2 very good ones or 1 very good plus 2 decent is as good as we can hope for. Decent should be better than what Carter has contributed do far
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kingofthehill
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Re: Ulster v Munster Friday April 22 7:35pm KO BBC2NI / RTE2 / Premier Sports 2 / URC TV / Super Sport

Post by kingofthehill »

Bart S wrote:No disrespect to Tredwell but his 6nations involvement outside of the Italy game is an indication that Ireland does not have an abudance of good locks currently outside of Ryan, Beirne and Hendy. With RG Snyman and Jenkins in place I can't see the irfu allowing a 3rd niq there.

Ulster had 5 niq's in the side which made the 2012 final - 3 world Cup winners, a tri nations winner and a springbok super rugby winner (Pedrie,). Those days are clearly over. 2 very good ones or 1 very good plus 2 decent is as good as we can hope for. Decent should be better than what Carter has contributed do far
Better system to have only two NIQs (but they have to be world class) and produce our own crop (whether thats from Leinster or not).

Schools rugby up north miles behind Leinster financially. My understanding is the rugby budget for a certain school down there is 300k a year (and it’s not one of the top ones). When they pay their junior school coaches up to 5k a year to coach it’s obviously going to pay off. The worry in the north is that teachers aren’t willing to do it anymore in schools. Huge problems lie ahead for ulster rugby if schools rugby goes to pot and I think it’s close to happening.


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Re: Ulster v Munster Friday April 22 7:35pm KO BBC2NI / RTE2 / Premier Sports 2 / URC TV / Super Sport

Post by HammerTime »

Those in power at UR, Petrie, Cunningham have no real interest in sorting youth rugby as it will be 10 years to see fruition and they’d more than likely be long gone. So why let someone else take the glory.
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Re: Ulster v Munster Friday April 22 7:35pm KO BBC2NI / RTE2 / Premier Sports 2 / URC TV / Super Sport

Post by solidarity »

kingofthehill wrote: Sun Apr 24, 2022 5:18 pm The worry in the north is that teachers aren’t willing to do it anymore in schools. Huge problems lie ahead for ulster rugby if schools rugby goes to pot and I think it’s close to happening.
What's the problem up here, King? Why no appetite for rugby in schools when Ulster are doing reasonably well? Despite not winning anything for a while, we're certainly not down among the dead men from Wales and Italy. This year we swept all before us in the group stages in Europe and were within an inch of a European qf. We should get a home qf in the URC. :scratch: :scratch: Munster haven't done any better, neither have Connacht, yet rugby seems to be flourishing there.
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Re: Ulster v Munster Friday April 22 7:35pm KO BBC2NI / RTE2 / Premier Sports 2 / URC TV / Super Sport

Post by StandUp »

HammerTime wrote: Sun Apr 24, 2022 6:03 pm Those in power at UR, Petrie, Cunningham have no real interest in sorting youth rugby as it will be 10 years to see fruition and they’d more than likely be long gone. So why let someone else take the glory.
Isn’t there a dedicated UR representative for schools and youth rugby?
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Re: Ulster v Munster Friday April 22 7:35pm KO BBC2NI / RTE2 / Premier Sports 2 / URC TV / Super Sport

Post by HammerTime »

Big-al wrote: Sun Apr 24, 2022 3:44 pm A huge problem is being forgotten about. Ulster have probably lost out on 2 home QF sell outs in the last 2 losses. A lot of money being lost through appalling performances.
Possibly missed out on 4 games. Home league qf/sf home Euro qf and possible big earner at the Aviva. You are talking into the millions in lost revenue. Worse, much of it has been gift wrapped to Munster. And to think only two weeks ago they were in sh!t state with their fans turning on them and not turning up to see them. Even though I regard Munster as a pretty average outfit, they have a cup mentality at the business end of the season that we could only dream of. And it has gotten them through. Grinding out All of those results early in the season have basically been drunk up against the wall. Ulster … Useless fux, yet again.
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kingofthehill
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Re: Ulster v Munster Friday April 22 7:35pm KO BBC2NI / RTE2 / Premier Sports 2 / URC TV / Super Sport

Post by kingofthehill »

solidarity wrote:
kingofthehill wrote: Sun Apr 24, 2022 5:18 pm The worry in the north is that teachers aren’t willing to do it anymore in schools. Huge problems lie ahead for ulster rugby if schools rugby goes to pot and I think it’s close to happening.
What's the problem up here, King? Why no appetite for rugby in schools when Ulster are doing reasonably well? Despite not winning anything for a while, we're certainly not down among the dead men from Wales and Italy. This year we swept all before us in the group stages in Europe and were within an inch of a European qf. We should get a home qf in the URC. :scratch: :scratch: Munster haven't done any better, neither have Connacht, yet rugby seems to be flourishing there.
It’s simple really….why would a teacher with a family want to take after school training 2/3 days a week and every Saturday for little if any pay?
Look across the schools in ulster who have teachers taking teams throughout the school. Some schools might have one teacher who will have to do every year group. Having parents taking teams in schools is not the way forward either.
The other issue is that the amount of teachers who actually know anything about rugby or other sports is dwindling IMO. The teaching profession is not attractive anymore.

With the way things are with cost of living and pay rises, teachers are going to do less and less. What’s the first thing that will go in schools……..extra curricular.

I might be totally wrong but I really don’t think I am.


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Re: Ulster v Munster Friday April 22 7:35pm KO BBC2NI / RTE2 / Premier Sports 2 / URC TV / Super Sport

Post by Dharper »

Have a good mate who is a teacher/was head of rugby (and sat sport) of a private school in England.

In short as KOTH has hinted at:

Rugby as a sport in schools is under real threat: pitches/facilities/coaching/insurance - additional teacher time (not necessarily paid or particularly appreciated) Increased competition for young peoples time eg internet. Also parents solely focusing on academia…..and this is in a big private school with a rugby tradition- rugby standards and numbers of participation is down.
Local rugby clubs struggling to put out 2 sides etc etc a lot of young sports talent is lost.

I flew over for a family wedding autumn drove from belfast to loch Erne resort - I saw signs for 1 rugby club, but saw several GAA - the raw talent and genetic farming stock must be out there to a degree.

I can’t help but feel (maybe unfairly), the constant reference to ulster schools cup and the same old schools - it doesn’t necessarily do UR any favours identifying and nurturing talent worthy of the pro game. It may be a channel, it shouldn’t be the channel.
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Re: Ulster v Munster Friday April 22 7:35pm KO BBC2NI / RTE2 / Premier Sports 2 / URC TV / Super Sport

Post by Bart S »

Just tell the players to stick 2 sugars in their almond lattes and start eating the damn sausages instead of selling them.

We'll get a few big lads soon.
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Re: Ulster v Munster Friday April 22 7:35pm KO BBC2NI / RTE2 / Premier Sports 2 / URC TV / Super Sport

Post by Dave »

There is a major difference in the school system north and south.

NI the schools are publicly funded in the main but crucially a pupil can apply to any school they wish.

In ROI it goes by postcode. You can't apply to the public funded school out of your area. Thus in areas with good schools the house prices are astronomical. Therefore, folk don't want to be paying off a massive mortgage for their entire life just for schooling. Therefore they stay where they are taking the hit for 6/7 years and send the kids to private school. Thus the schools become more and more competitive. A big selling point is sport and facilities etc.

As King says, up here the average say u13 school coach is a teacher giving up his Saturday. Whereas in the big private school they are buying in top class coaching because they can. Training more frequently and have s & c sessions.

There are outlying freaks who develop without such resource. Furlong etc. Even Ferris was a javelin thrower or something before he was interested in rugby. Its difficult know when the next one will appear.

As King says, 2/3 world class NIQs along with the current squad would get us in the mix. Whether that's possible or not. I just don't know.
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Re: Ulster v Munster Friday April 22 7:35pm KO BBC2NI / RTE2 / Premier Sports 2 / URC TV / Super Sport

Post by kingofthehill »

Dave wrote:There is a major difference in the school system north and south.

NI the schools are publicly funded in the main but crucially a pupil can apply to any school they wish.

In ROI it goes by postcode. You can't apply to the public funded school out of your area. Thus in areas with good schools the house prices are astronomical. Therefore, folk don't want to be paying off a massive mortgage for their entire life just for schooling. Therefore they stay where they are taking the hit for 6/7 years and send the kids to private school. Thus the schools become more and more competitive. A big selling point is sport and facilities etc.

As King says, up here the average say u13 school coach is a teacher giving up his Saturday. Whereas in the big private school they are buying in top class coaching because they can. Training more frequently and have s & c sessions.

There are outlying freaks who develop without such resource. Furlong etc. Even Ferris was a javelin thrower or something before he was interested in rugby. Its difficult know when the next one will appear.

As King says, 2/3 world class NIQs along with the current squad would get us in the mix. Whether that's possible or not. I just don't know.
The worrying thing about the schools rugby here is it’s going to break very very soon and people can’t see it. Schools rugby is the purest of sports and I feel sorry for the next generation of kids who just aren’t going to benefit from it.

We are agreeing an awful lot these daysImage


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Re: Ulster v Munster Friday April 22 7:35pm KO BBC2NI / RTE2 / Premier Sports 2 / URC TV / Super Sport

Post by StandUp »

I would love to see us get 2/3 world class NIQ’s but I still don’t think that would fix the mental fragility pervading the squad when the pressure really ratchets up. It has been an issue for years.
Do Ulster players have an inferiority complex?
Is it, as mentioned above, a lack of high quality coaching from a young age?
Every Leinster/Munster player seems to have that killer mentality and absolute desire to win every contact, collision, match and competition. And when the pressure is on, they seem to thrive.
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Re: Ulster v Munster Friday April 22 7:35pm KO BBC2NI / RTE2 / Premier Sports 2 / URC TV / Super Sport

Post by Dharper »

I’d be on a charm offensive every time we are in SA, not just top end players, but junior clubs outside elite SA schools. There undoubtedly is massive wasted sporting talent down there.
Meanwhile we may gents just have to suck up the regular frustrating loss….but remember where we were 3/4seasons ago - the total implosion, the end of a generation of players, and no leadership structure - we’ve come a long long way.

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