Ulster v Munster Friday April 22 7:35pm KO BBC2NI / RTE2 / Premier Sports 2 / URC TV / Super Sport

[StandUp]

I don’t think there’s a great deal of room in professional sport for experimentation, especially for a coach in the final year of their contract.

It will be interesting to see how we develop the lad from Munster, given his pedigree for the U20s.

There’s some talk of a URC reserve league.

At the very least, we should be playing the other Provinces more often at A team level.

Surely playing Lowry at 15 initially for Ulster when he had been playing 10 in his recent years before that was an experiment in itself? I am pretty sure he was always earmarked as a potential 10 rather than a 15.
Playing Peter Nelson at 10 a few years ago was more of an experiment.

Hopefully Addison will be fit again next season as that will give Dan more options.

I don’t think there’s a great deal of room in professional sport for experimentation, especially for a coach in the final year of their contract.

It will be interesting to see how we develop the lad from Munster, given his pedigree for the U20s.

There’s some talk of a URC reserve league.

At the very least, we should be playing the other Provinces more often at A team level.

Surely playing Lowry at 15 initially for Ulster when he had been playing 10 in his recent years before that was an experiment in itself? I am pretty sure he was always earmarked as a potential 10 rather than a 15.
Playing Peter Nelson at 10 a few years ago was more of an experiment.

Hopefully Addison will be fit again next season as that will give Dan more options.

The issue is what you lose when Lowry goes to 10. We had a centre playing fullback. Lowry has been outstanding in the 15 shirt. He is breaking all sorts of records for beating defenders and gaining yards. Munster are rubbing their hands if he goes to 10. Their rush defence can easily close in the space. Without effective ball carrying through the middle the ability to break the gain line is reduced with no space for Lowry. Maybe with Addison playing at 15 we could prolong this but I feel Lowry should remain at 15 for now.

Agree , only thing i can add to that is time at 10 without everyone hounding him.


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Everyone has come to expect razzmatazz from Mikey every time he gets the ball. People need to realise he is doing a very different job at 10 and like KOTH says, needs time. The razzmatazz may still come at 10.
If I started doing a very different job in my company, I would need time to adjust. And I’m not doing it in front of a stadium audience and tv audience.
Mikey got zero assistance from his forwards and they should bear the brunt of our opprobrium.

[Soda]

[/quote]

But will the implosion of his team of mental midgets ruin his share price?
The last few matches will not do Dan’s stock any good. And if he can’t prepare a URC team, how could he prepare an international squad.[/quote]

Think he fancies a Gallagher Premiership berth


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[StandUp]

Oh, I thought he was ambitious.

[10 or 15 only]

Just to clear up why IH came off at half time, it was for family reasons. He should not have played but with Treadwell not available I would not have been surprised if his family told him to get out there. Very difficult for him, I’m sure.

[Dave]

Hendy being a great captain stepping into the breach. Condolences to his wider family.

[volvo]

Like all on here gutted after last two weeks and after Dan's comments maybe I was wrong in my praise and suggesting last week we should get him signed up to an extension, we have some real good individual players methinks they all just need a bit of mental fortitude and be coached to play as a team. Heads go down too quick when mistakes are made and then just more mistakes not an expert just my thoughts and observations.

[Bart S]

We're in real hero to zero mode on here.
With Burns injured there weren't many options to start at 10. If you look at the comments on here after the Bulls game Dan would have been blasted for starting Madigan there if he played as poorly again. Plenty of criticism of the Moore selection after the game but none after his previous game there against Cardiff recently.

Dan has made mistakes but he's done enough good things IMHO to continue backing him and his project at Ulster

[3put]

Must apologise for my post on page 8 re Ian Henderson. I just had no idea of his family circumstances.

[Dharper]

Look any other yr we’d have been in the euro qf, having beat the champs in their own back yard, with half the French grand slam squad in it and a 20 odd mill Euro budget. It look the most exciting half backs in the world behind the heaviest pack I’ve ever seen, to the death of the 2nd game to beat us, on the back of a pretty tough trip to SA. The first 23 have been to the well mentally & physically.

Our best pack out can compete against most teams, but we lack any real depth to it, which is our Achilles heel.

I do question our tactics, with an over reliance on 5m lineout drives, when against the best, we are smaller and the lineout is shakey. It’s effective against lesser teams, but with our backline we Really should be showing more variety. If we had a more physical pack we may not have to box kick away possession as much.

It’d be interesting re budget’s whether we can afford pack upgrades. UR may need to free up funds and not re contract decent backs to get that forwards budget. I’d go down that route, as mentioned before if necessary.

Dan has done a great rebuild of UR, I wouldn’t necessarily agree re tactics. Real issue is can we improve within the Irish system. Don’t hear much from Bryn / Petrie. I’d be amazed if Bryn doesn’t have his ear to the ground re recruitment, but the big plays will be end of next season/WC cycle.
Hopefully reffell at 7 is a real viable option as is the lanky 2nd row in France - I hope playing D2 he can handle himself.

[Bart S]

Must apologise for my post on page 8 re Ian Henderson. I just had no idea of his family circumstances.

Likewise I was critical of his performance last night without knowing the circumstances.

[Dave]

Look any other yr we’d have been in the euro qf, having beat the champs in their own back yard, with half the French grand slam squad in it and a 20 odd mill Euro budget. It look the most exciting half backs in the world behind the heaviest pack I’ve ever seen, to the death of the 2nd game to beat us, on the back of a pretty tough trip to SA. The first 23 have been to the well mentally & physically.

Our best pack out can compete against most teams, but we lack any real depth to it, which is our Achilles heel.

I do question our tactics, with an over reliance on 5m lineout drives, when against the best, we are smaller and the lineout is shakey. It’s effective against lesser teams, but with our backline we Really should be showing more variety. If we had a more physical pack we may not have to box kick away possession as much.

It’d be interesting re budget’s whether we can afford pack upgrades. UR may need to free up funds and not re contract decent backs to get that forwards budget. I’d go down that route, as mentioned before if necessary.

Dan has done a great rebuild of UR, I wouldn’t necessarily agree re tactics. Real issue is can we improve within the Irish system. Don’t hear much from Bryn / Petrie. I’d be amazed if Bryn doesn’t have his ear to the ground re recruitment, but the big plays will be end of next season/WC cycle.
Hopefully reffell at 7 is a real viable option as is the lanky 2nd row in France - I hope playing D2 he can handle himself.

At every recruitment opportunity we must prioritise a ball carrying forward. We can scrum, lineout, maul fairly well, we don't overwhelmingly need cover for specialist positions such as hooker etc. Dan and Roddy have done a good job with the pack in ensuring the basics are covered. We have leaders, I believe. I think with Marcus Rea and Refell joining we have that poaching threat. Don't get me wrong we could improve some of these areas. The overwhelming thing we lack is muscle. That fact has not changed in about 20 years.

A signing like Kitshoff would be great. He can carry, provide leadership and is a world class scrummager. We must never sign a Carter again. The fact we did it twice is galling.

[StandUp]

Look any other yr we’d have been in the euro qf, having beat the champs in their own back yard, with half the French grand slam squad in it and a 20 odd mill Euro budget. It look the most exciting half backs in the world behind the heaviest pack I’ve ever seen, to the death of the 2nd game to beat us, on the back of a pretty tough trip to SA. The first 23 have been to the well mentally & physically.

Our best pack out can compete against most teams, but we lack any real depth to it, which is our Achilles heel.

I do question our tactics, with an over reliance on 5m lineout drives, when against the best, we are smaller and the lineout is shakey. It’s effective against lesser teams, but with our backline we Really should be showing more variety. If we had a more physical pack we may not have to box kick away possession as much.

It’d be interesting re budget’s whether we can afford pack upgrades. UR may need to free up funds and not re contract decent backs to get that forwards budget. I’d go down that route, as mentioned before if necessary.

Dan has done a great rebuild of UR, I wouldn’t necessarily agree re tactics. Real issue is can we improve within the Irish system. Don’t hear much from Bryn / Petrie. I’d be amazed if Bryn doesn’t have his ear to the ground re recruitment, but the big plays will be end of next season/WC cycle.
Hopefully reffell at 7 is a real viable option as is the lanky 2nd row in France - I hope playing D2 he can handle himself.

At every recruitment opportunity we must prioritise a ball carrying forward. We can scrum, lineout, maul fairly well, we don't overwhelmingly need cover for specialist positions such as hooker etc. Dan and Roddy have done a good job with the pack in ensuring the basics are covered. We have leaders, I believe. I think with Marcus Rea and Refell joining we have that poaching threat. Don't get me wrong we could improve some of these areas. The overwhelming thing we lack is muscle. That fact has not changed in about 20 years.

A signing like Kitshoff would be great. He can carry, provide leadership and is a world class scrummager. We must never sign a Carter again. The fact we did it twice is galling.

Very much agree Dave. One thing I would add is our forwards must start fighting for that extra inch and winning collisions, not dropping to ground at the first contact.
It’s a mindset that Leinster and Munster have always had, and Dan introduced the mantra, but it never truly transpired.
If the forwards truly play as units and not individuals then they don’t need to worry about choke tackles and can therefore leg drive over the gain line and put the defence on the back foot.
Currently it’s far too easy for defenders to put us to ground and poach the ball because the forwards are not fighting enough and eventually this is going to cost me a tv as I get so angry with the same sh1te time and again that I will end up throwing the remote through the screen.
Do the players not believe in fight for every inch?
Is it not being reinforced in training?
Do the players not fully agree with the coaches on tactics/selections?
Will I need tv insurance?

[UlsterNo9]

We're light years away from regularly competing for league and european titles, I'm unsure where the average Ulster rugby fan forms the opinion that we should be. We need to have a grassroots blueprint for producing our own forwards. Not relying on buying in NIQs at the end of World Cup cycles, nor finding someone on the other side of the world with an Irish granny or taking the left overs other provinces don't take into their academy (however much I love the adoption and buy in those lads make to become Ulstermen).

Leinster have had consistantly 8-10 forwards in an Irish matchday squad and they've won one European title in the past decade, we've had 1-2 in a matchday international squad.

If we go back to amateur era a current Ulster produced pack would look something like

1 Warwick 2 Andrew 3 O'Kane 4 A.N. Other 5 Henderson 6 Rea Snr 7 Rea Jnr 8 McCann
16 Stewart 17 Reid 18 Carey? 19 A.N. Other 20. A.N. Other

There's something fundamentally wrong at grass roots level which has never been addressed. I don't accept that we're not capable, we were the most success province during the 80s and 90s.

Producing our own is the only way to win titles, then add 3 quality NIQs to that and pick a few IQs up along the way.

[StandUp]

We're light years away from regularly competing for league and european titles, I'm unsure where the average Ulster rugby fan forms the opinion that we should be. We need to have a grassroots blueprint for producing our own forwards. Not relying on buying in NIQs at the end of World Cup cycles, nor finding someone on the other side of the world with an Irish granny or taking the left overs other provinces don't take into their academy (however much I love the adoption and buy in those lads make to become Ulstermen).

Leinster have had consistantly 8-10 forwards in an Irish matchday squad and they've won one European title in the past decade, we've had 1-2 in a matchday international squad.

If we go back to amateur era a current Ulster produced pack would look something like

1 Warwick 2 Andrew 3 O'Kane 4 A.N. Other 5 Henderson 6 Rea Snr 7 Rea Jnr 8 McCann
16 Stewart 17 Reid 18 Carey? 19 A.N. Other 20. A.N. Other

There's something fundamentally wrong at grass roots level which has never been addressed. I don't accept that we're not capable, we were the most success province during the 80s and 90s.

Producing our own is the only way to win titles, then add 3 quality NIQs to that and pick a few IQs up along the way.

Excellent post 9er. Will take a long time to get there but that’s the ideal scenario.

[Bart S]

Plenty of motivation left for Ulster :-

If my analysis is correct :-

2 wins of any description means a home QF unless Glasgow get at least 9 pts from their 2 games, the 1st of which is away to the Bulls and therefore a big ask.

To finish 2nd Ulster need Munster and Stormers to lose 1 if their 2 remaining games. Both have to play Leinster. Stormers also away to Stormers.

2 wins key now for some confidence going into the qf's.