Soda wrote: ↑Mon May 02, 2022 11:04 am
Early days of the old Heineken Cup, Connacht were designated as a development side by the IRFU and were not permitted to qualify.
If memory serves this would’ve been Magner’s League days and there were 3 Irish teams who qualified so in theory we could’ve finished last and still qualified
Not actually sure if there even was a Parker Pen in those days
great memory Soda
In 07/08 we finished 9th out of 10 in the Magners and still qualified!
Ah, the Matt Williams / Niall O’Connor nadir. God we were awful then.
Seemed to pi$h down every Friday too
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
NOC got about 60 caps for Ulster. Am sure McGlock had him as 1st choice for a while ahead of I Humps.
IIRC, NOC's great achievement was kicking 2 pens in an absolute gale at the Sports ground to give Connacht a 6-5 win over Quins which guaranteed ulster a heiny knockout place.
Seem to remember him rejoining for a season or so for reasons which are not immediately obvious
May be a Guinness induced false memory though
Pretty sure I remember him being invited to Ireland camps too
Having been over to Edinburgh for the match, and now re-watched it, it seemed to be the sort of performance (physical and mental) that was necessary. Assisted no end by some fairly woeful Edinburgh pass selection and finishing. However, all the crowd was involved in the last 10 minutes, and hats off to the 1,000+ Ulster supporters from near and far in the ground. Their impact was shown by (IMHO what is the ultimate indignity) the need of the announcer to attempt to rouse the home crowd in the second half. Although given that this was their first sell-out, it's likely that a lot of non-Ulster spectators were new too...
A couple of wider thoughts around Edinburgh vs Ulster. Playing in a smaller 'stadium' has to better for Edinburgh than lost in the larger one, but it does really highlight the difference between the two teams, the set-up - and at a wider level - the SRU and IRFU. In terms of set-up the 'place' itself seemed reminiscent of Ravenhill 2012 - temporary stands, portakabins etc, although Ravenhill did at least have an old grandstand. In fact, almost the only better thing was the presence of pubs like the Roseburn so close to the ground. And the tram to take you back into town. Yet the cities of Edinburgh and Belfast are not that far apart in population size with the former certainly far wealthier (cf New Town and the South Side).
So the question is: given the similarities between rugby in Ireland and Scotland (e.g. a similar size population, generally similar socio-economic profile of sources of players and supporters, a single 50k national ground, another major sport taking precedence for a sizeable section of the population), why has Ireland got 4 teams, 4 reasonably sized and permanent grounds (incl. Musgrave Park but not quite yet the Sportsground) whilst Scotland still seems stuck, facilities-wise at the least, in the 2010's - and only has 2 teams ? Indeed, in a way, Rodney Parade has more 'permanence' to it than either mini-Murrayfield or Scotstoun. Is it partly because the IRFU/the Provinces have been far better at securing government (whether Ireland or NI) support for infrastructure renewal, and/or that the Scottish Govt do not see sport in the same way ? Or is the Scottish national team like the Welsh national one - almost operated as the third/fifth region and both supporters and sponsors are directed towards the national level ?
What is interesting is that tickets for Edinburgh were sold and issued by the SRU, not Edinburgh Rugby. Is there less independence for their two teams than Ulster have from the IRFU ? It is easy to see why Jonny Petrie was interesting in coming to head-up Ulster Rugby.
And it does seem to be that trains in the background are a feature of watching URC-level rugby in Scotland....
If anything Ireland should be at a considerable disadvantage compared to Scotland given the strength of Gaelic sports (in addition to soccer) on this Island.
Volunteer at an animal sanctuary; it will fill you with joy , despair, but most of all love, unconditional love of the animals.
Big Neville Southall
big mervyn wrote: ↑Wed May 04, 2022 10:29 am
If anything Ireland should be at a considerable disadvantage compared to Scotland given the strength of Gaelic sports (in addition to soccer) on this Island.
Indeed. When you look at the long term overall impact of the Gaelic Revival (which is what the GAA came out of in the later years of the 19th century), I would contend that it is by far the greatest at the sporting level; certainly as it affects everyday life on this island anyway....
And more relevant to my original post, take a look at the articles (and the BTL comments) on that site under 'The Union' tab..... broadly comparable turnovers for SRU & IRFU at between £60-70m, although salaries for CEOs differ somewhat - SRU at around £900k (incl. peformance bonus), IRFU reportedly £175k.
Last edited by WestDr on Wed May 04, 2022 6:52 pm, edited 1 time in total.
Bart S wrote: ↑Tue May 03, 2022 7:38 pm
NOC got about 60 caps for Ulster. Am sure McGlock had him as 1st choice for a while ahead of I Humps.
IIRC, NOC's great achievement was kicking 2 pens in an absolute gale at the Sports ground to give Connacht a 6-5 win over Quins which guaranteed ulster a heiny knockout place.
Not so!
His greatest achievement was winning the Ulster Rugby Quiz in 2009-10 as part of the 2nd Barrier Crew's team.
Every team was allocated one player, and we drew NOC. An unblemished performance - he never put a foot wrong throughout the quiz - didn't answer a single question, so didn't get any wrong!
I'm not arguing -
I'm just explaining why I'm right
Bart S wrote: ↑Tue May 03, 2022 7:38 pm
NOC got about 60 caps for Ulster. Am sure McGlock had him as 1st choice for a while ahead of I Humps.
IIRC, NOC's great achievement was kicking 2 pens in an absolute gale at the Sports ground to give Connacht a 6-5 win over Quins which guaranteed ulster a heiny knockout place.
Not so!
His greatest achievement was winning the Ulster Rugby Quiz in 2009-10 as part of the 2nd Barrier Crew's team.
Every team was allocated one player, and we drew NOC. An unblemished performance - he never put a foot wrong throughout the quiz - didn't answer a single question, so didn't get any wrong!
And the evidence :
L-R NOC, (Members of this Parish) Mid Ulster Maestro, yours truly, Freddie Benson, the original kimble, and Big Nose. Behind right is A***** H******** former URSC Committee member but not to my knowledge a member of the UAFC Parish, but I could be wrong on that.
Attachments
SBC Quiz Winners.jpg (36.25 KiB) Viewed 1294 times
I'm not arguing -
I'm just explaining why I'm right
EUROPEAN PROFESSIONAL CLUB RUGBY (EPCR) QUALIFICATION AND SEEDING QUALIFICATION
(1.) Eight Clubs participating in the Championship will qualify to participate in the 2022/23 EPCR Heineken Champions Cup, with the remaining eight Clubs qualifying to participate in the 2022/23 EPCR Challenge Cup (in each case subject to – among other things – nomination by the relevant union, acceptance by EPCR and compliance with the relevant participation agreement).
(2.) Subject to paragraph 3, below, the eight Clubs that qualify to participate in the 2022/23 EPCR Heineken Champions Cup will be made up of the following:
(2.1) the four Clubs that are top of the respective Geographic Pools at the conclusion of the League Stage (assuming that those Geographical Pools reflect simply the relevant points and positions of the Clubs in those pools after – and having taken into account – all League Stage Matches, and applying the provisions in clause 2.7 of the Championship Rules to determine the positions of the Clubs in those pools); and
(2.2) the four highest placed Clubs in the final Standing League Table (ie after the League Stage has concluded) after having removed from the Standing League Table all Clubs that have qualified as a result of finishing top of the Geographical Pools as set out in paragraph 2.1, above.
(3.) In the event that: (a) a Club wins the Championship; and/or (b) a Club wins the 2021/22 EPCR Heineken Champions Cup (and therefore qualifies for the 2022/23 EPCR Heineken Champions Cup pursuant to EPCR's play-off regulations 2021/22); and/or (c) a Club wins the 2021/22 EPCR Challenge Cup (and therefore qualifies for the 2022/23 EPCR Heineken Champions Cup pursuant to EPCR's play-off regulations 2021/22), but that Club/those Clubs has/have not qualified to participate in the 2022/23 EPCR Heineken Champions Cup via either paragraph 2.1 or 2.2, above, then the eight Clubs that qualify to participate in the 2022/23 EPCR Heineken Champions Cup will be made up of the following:
(3.1) if applicable, the Club that has won the Championship, but has not qualified to participate in the 2022/23 EPCR Heineken Champions Cup via either paragraph 2.1 or 2.2, above;
(3.2) if applicable, the Club that has won the 2021/22 EPCR Heineken Champions Cup, but has not qualified to participate in the 2022/23 EPCR Heineken Champions Cup via either paragraph 2.1 or 2.2, above;
(3.3) if applicable, the Club that has won the 2021/22 EPCR Challenge Cup, but has not qualified to participate in the 2022/23 EPCR Heineken Champions Cup via either paragraph 2.1 or 2.2, above;
(3.4) the four Clubs that are top of the respective Geographic Pools at the conclusion of the League Stage pursuant to paragraph 2.1, above; and
(3.5) the highest placed Clubs in the final Standing League Table (the number of which shall be determined by the number of Clubs that qualify through paragraphs 3.1.-3.4, for example if three separate Clubs qualify through paragraphs 3.1-3.3 there will only be one Club that will qualify through this paragraph 3.5) after having removed from the Standing League Table all Clubs that have qualified as a result of paragraphs 3.1-3.4.
I've just re-read that (yes I know, I was at a lose end, OK) and it doesn't actually make sense.
For instance paragraph 2.1 refers to 'assumptions' regarding the regional pools and also refers to a seemingly non existent rule 2.7, while paragraph 3.1 refers to a situation that can't possibly actually happen and which in turn means they've got their example wrong in paragraph 3.5.
Presumably the end result of a ham fisted rewriting to remove the regional shields as stand alone competitions, it's not exactly the most professional thing ever
Last edited by Soda on Tue May 10, 2022 4:46 pm, edited 1 time in total.
EUROPEAN PROFESSIONAL CLUB RUGBY (EPCR) QUALIFICATION AND SEEDING QUALIFICATION
(1.) Eight Clubs participating in the Championship will qualify to participate in the 2022/23 EPCR Heineken Champions Cup, with the remaining eight Clubs qualifying to participate in the 2022/23 EPCR Challenge Cup (in each case subject to – among other things – nomination by the relevant union, acceptance by EPCR and compliance with the relevant participation agreement).
(2.) Subject to paragraph 3, below, the eight Clubs that qualify to participate in the 2022/23 EPCR Heineken Champions Cup will be made up of the following:
(2.1) the four Clubs that are top of the respective Geographic Pools at the conclusion of the League Stage (assuming that those Geographical Pools reflect simply the relevant points and positions of the Clubs in those pools after – and having taken into account – all League Stage Matches, and applying the provisions in clause 2.7 of the Championship Rules to determine the positions of the Clubs in those pools); and
(2.2) the four highest placed Clubs in the final Standing League Table (ie after the League Stage has concluded) after having removed from the Standing League Table all Clubs that have qualified as a result of finishing top of the Geographical Pools as set out in paragraph 2.1, above.
(3.) In the event that: (a) a Club wins the Championship; and/or (b) a Club wins the 2021/22 EPCR Heineken Champions Cup (and therefore qualifies for the 2022/23 EPCR Heineken Champions Cup pursuant to EPCR's play-off regulations 2021/22); and/or (c) a Club wins the 2021/22 EPCR Challenge Cup (and therefore qualifies for the 2022/23 EPCR Heineken Champions Cup pursuant to EPCR's play-off regulations 2021/22), but that Club/those Clubs has/have not qualified to participate in the 2022/23 EPCR Heineken Champions Cup via either paragraph 2.1 or 2.2, above, then the eight Clubs that qualify to participate in the 2022/23 EPCR Heineken Champions Cup will be made up of the following:
(3.1) if applicable, the Club that has won the Championship, but has not qualified to participate in the 2022/23 EPCR Heineken Champions Cup via either paragraph 2.1 or 2.2, above;
(3.2) if applicable, the Club that has won the 2021/22 EPCR Heineken Champions Cup, but has not qualified to participate in the 2022/23 EPCR Heineken Champions Cup via either paragraph 2.1 or 2.2, above;
(3.3) if applicable, the Club that has won the 2021/22 EPCR Challenge Cup, but has not qualified to participate in the 2022/23 EPCR Heineken Champions Cup via either paragraph 2.1 or 2.2, above;
(3.4) the four Clubs that are top of the respective Geographic Pools at the conclusion of the League Stage pursuant to paragraph 2.1, above; and
(3.5) the highest placed Clubs in the final Standing League Table (the number of which shall be determined by the number of Clubs that qualify through paragraphs 3.1.-3.4, for example if three separate Clubs qualify through paragraphs 3.1-3.3 there will only be one Club that will qualify through this paragraph 3.5) after having removed from the Standing League Table all Clubs that have qualified as a result of paragraphs 3.1-3.4.
I've just re-read that (yes I know, I was at a lose end, OK) and it doesn't actually make sense.
For instance paragraph 2.1 refers to 'assumptions' regarding the regional pools and also refers to a seemingly non existent rule 2.7, while paragraph 3.1 refers to a situation that can't possibly actually happen.
Presumably the end result of a ham fisted rewriting to remove the regional shields as stand alone competitions, it's not exactly the most professional thing ever
(3.1) if applicable, the Club that has won the Championship, but has not qualified to participate in the 2022/23 EPCR Heineken Champions Cup via either paragraph 2.1 or 2.2, above - can happen. Glasgow lose to Edinburgh who win Scottish/Italian Shield and Glasgow have no European spot as the best Welsh side will be 9th, then Glasgow win URC......unlikely I know.
EUROPEAN PROFESSIONAL CLUB RUGBY (EPCR) QUALIFICATION AND SEEDING QUALIFICATION
(1.) Eight Clubs participating in the Championship will qualify to participate in the 2022/23 EPCR Heineken Champions Cup, with the remaining eight Clubs qualifying to participate in the 2022/23 EPCR Challenge Cup (in each case subject to – among other things – nomination by the relevant union, acceptance by EPCR and compliance with the relevant participation agreement).
(2.) Subject to paragraph 3, below, the eight Clubs that qualify to participate in the 2022/23 EPCR Heineken Champions Cup will be made up of the following:
(2.1) the four Clubs that are top of the respective Geographic Pools at the conclusion of the League Stage (assuming that those Geographical Pools reflect simply the relevant points and positions of the Clubs in those pools after – and having taken into account – all League Stage Matches, and applying the provisions in clause 2.7 of the Championship Rules to determine the positions of the Clubs in those pools); and
(2.2) the four highest placed Clubs in the final Standing League Table (ie after the League Stage has concluded) after having removed from the Standing League Table all Clubs that have qualified as a result of finishing top of the Geographical Pools as set out in paragraph 2.1, above.
(3.) In the event that: (a) a Club wins the Championship; and/or (b) a Club wins the 2021/22 EPCR Heineken Champions Cup (and therefore qualifies for the 2022/23 EPCR Heineken Champions Cup pursuant to EPCR's play-off regulations 2021/22); and/or (c) a Club wins the 2021/22 EPCR Challenge Cup (and therefore qualifies for the 2022/23 EPCR Heineken Champions Cup pursuant to EPCR's play-off regulations 2021/22), but that Club/those Clubs has/have not qualified to participate in the 2022/23 EPCR Heineken Champions Cup via either paragraph 2.1 or 2.2, above, then the eight Clubs that qualify to participate in the 2022/23 EPCR Heineken Champions Cup will be made up of the following:
(3.1) if applicable, the Club that has won the Championship, but has not qualified to participate in the 2022/23 EPCR Heineken Champions Cup via either paragraph 2.1 or 2.2, above;
(3.2) if applicable, the Club that has won the 2021/22 EPCR Heineken Champions Cup, but has not qualified to participate in the 2022/23 EPCR Heineken Champions Cup via either paragraph 2.1 or 2.2, above;
(3.3) if applicable, the Club that has won the 2021/22 EPCR Challenge Cup, but has not qualified to participate in the 2022/23 EPCR Heineken Champions Cup via either paragraph 2.1 or 2.2, above;
(3.4) the four Clubs that are top of the respective Geographic Pools at the conclusion of the League Stage pursuant to paragraph 2.1, above; and
(3.5) the highest placed Clubs in the final Standing League Table (the number of which shall be determined by the number of Clubs that qualify through paragraphs 3.1.-3.4, for example if three separate Clubs qualify through paragraphs 3.1-3.3 there will only be one Club that will qualify through this paragraph 3.5) after having removed from the Standing League Table all Clubs that have qualified as a result of paragraphs 3.1-3.4.
I've just re-read that (yes I know, I was at a lose end, OK) and it doesn't actually make sense.
For instance paragraph 2.1 refers to 'assumptions' regarding the regional pools and also refers to a seemingly non existent rule 2.7, while paragraph 3.1 refers to a situation that can't possibly actually happen.
Presumably the end result of a ham fisted rewriting to remove the regional shields as stand alone competitions, it's not exactly the most professional thing ever
(3.1) if applicable, the Club that has won the Championship, but has not qualified to participate in the 2022/23 EPCR Heineken Champions Cup via either paragraph 2.1 or 2.2, above - can happen. Glasgow lose to Edinburgh who win Scottish/Italian Shield and Glasgow have no European spot as the best Welsh side will be 9th, then Glasgow win URC......unlikely I know.
No, you simply can't win the Championship and not win your Regional Pool ( based as it is on final league standing)
(also, you do realise you won't win the league if you finish 8th?)
Perhaps you've simply confused the Championship (URC) with the EPCR Champions Cup?
Last edited by Soda on Tue May 10, 2022 4:59 pm, edited 1 time in total.
EUROPEAN PROFESSIONAL CLUB RUGBY (EPCR) QUALIFICATION AND SEEDING QUALIFICATION
(1.) Eight Clubs participating in the Championship will qualify to participate in the 2022/23 EPCR Heineken Champions Cup, with the remaining eight Clubs qualifying to participate in the 2022/23 EPCR Challenge Cup (in each case subject to – among other things – nomination by the relevant union, acceptance by EPCR and compliance with the relevant participation agreement).
(2.) Subject to paragraph 3, below, the eight Clubs that qualify to participate in the 2022/23 EPCR Heineken Champions Cup will be made up of the following:
(2.1) the four Clubs that are top of the respective Geographic Pools at the conclusion of the League Stage (assuming that those Geographical Pools reflect simply the relevant points and positions of the Clubs in those pools after – and having taken into account – all League Stage Matches, and applying the provisions in clause 2.7 of the Championship Rules to determine the positions of the Clubs in those pools); and
(2.2) the four highest placed Clubs in the final Standing League Table (ie after the League Stage has concluded) after having removed from the Standing League Table all Clubs that have qualified as a result of finishing top of the Geographical Pools as set out in paragraph 2.1, above.
(3.) In the event that: (a) a Club wins the Championship; and/or (b) a Club wins the 2021/22 EPCR Heineken Champions Cup (and therefore qualifies for the 2022/23 EPCR Heineken Champions Cup pursuant to EPCR's play-off regulations 2021/22); and/or (c) a Club wins the 2021/22 EPCR Challenge Cup (and therefore qualifies for the 2022/23 EPCR Heineken Champions Cup pursuant to EPCR's play-off regulations 2021/22), but that Club/those Clubs has/have not qualified to participate in the 2022/23 EPCR Heineken Champions Cup via either paragraph 2.1 or 2.2, above, then the eight Clubs that qualify to participate in the 2022/23 EPCR Heineken Champions Cup will be made up of the following:
(3.1) if applicable, the Club that has won the Championship, but has not qualified to participate in the 2022/23 EPCR Heineken Champions Cup via either paragraph 2.1 or 2.2, above;
(3.2) if applicable, the Club that has won the 2021/22 EPCR Heineken Champions Cup, but has not qualified to participate in the 2022/23 EPCR Heineken Champions Cup via either paragraph 2.1 or 2.2, above;
(3.3) if applicable, the Club that has won the 2021/22 EPCR Challenge Cup, but has not qualified to participate in the 2022/23 EPCR Heineken Champions Cup via either paragraph 2.1 or 2.2, above;
(3.4) the four Clubs that are top of the respective Geographic Pools at the conclusion of the League Stage pursuant to paragraph 2.1, above; and
(3.5) the highest placed Clubs in the final Standing League Table (the number of which shall be determined by the number of Clubs that qualify through paragraphs 3.1.-3.4, for example if three separate Clubs qualify through paragraphs 3.1-3.3 there will only be one Club that will qualify through this paragraph 3.5) after having removed from the Standing League Table all Clubs that have qualified as a result of paragraphs 3.1-3.4.
I've just re-read that (yes I know, I was at a lose end, OK) and it doesn't actually make sense.
For instance paragraph 2.1 refers to 'assumptions' regarding the regional pools and also refers to a seemingly non existent rule 2.7, while paragraph 3.1 refers to a situation that can't possibly actually happen.
Presumably the end result of a ham fisted rewriting to remove the regional shields as stand alone competitions, it's not exactly the most professional thing ever
(3.1) if applicable, the Club that has won the Championship, but has not qualified to participate in the 2022/23 EPCR Heineken Champions Cup via either paragraph 2.1 or 2.2, above - can happen. Glasgow lose to Edinburgh who win Scottish/Italian Shield and Glasgow have no European spot as the best Welsh side will be 9th, then Glasgow win URC......unlikely I know.
No, you simply can't win the Championship and not win your Regional Pool ( based as it is on final league standing)
3 back doors into Heineken Cup 22/23 via URC if you have not won your Shield or coming in next best 4 spots table:
I've just re-read that (yes I know, I was at a lose end, OK) and it doesn't actually make sense.
For instance paragraph 2.1 refers to 'assumptions' regarding the regional pools and also refers to a seemingly non existent rule 2.7, while paragraph 3.1 refers to a situation that can't possibly actually happen.
Presumably the end result of a ham fisted rewriting to remove the regional shields as stand alone competitions, it's not exactly the most professional thing ever
(3.1) if applicable, the Club that has won the Championship, but has not qualified to participate in the 2022/23 EPCR Heineken Champions Cup via either paragraph 2.1 or 2.2, above - can happen. Glasgow lose to Edinburgh who win Scottish/Italian Shield and Glasgow have no European spot as the best Welsh side will be 9th, then Glasgow win URC......unlikely I know.
No, you simply can't win the Championship and not win your Regional Pool ( based as it is on final league standing)
3 back doors into Heineken Cup 22/23 via URC if you have not won your Shield or coming in next best 4 spots table: