Crisis or chronic illness??

[CIMANFOREVER]

McFarland is Guru of sports psychology, allegedly. What's the approach around so called professional players that find a defeat that embarrasses the history of Ulster as a province and takes the pish out of fans who pay hard-earned cash for travel, tickets season tickets, merchandise etc as a laughing matter as UR try to justify selling their substandard "product" to us Year after year.

This is a so called professional organisation and players. No longer game amateurs giving up their time and money for the love of Province And game. Privileged and well paid.
They must be judged as professionals as we all are in our own jobs. As far as I'm concerned this gives the UR fans the right to criticise UR as an organisation, management/ players as appropriate- rather than some of the watery "awww bad luck/ they tried their best" shyte and spineless lack of justifiable criticism from some quarters. For fear of offending ffs. That attitude reinforces the mediocrity.
What should UR learn from Leinster? Ruthlessness in all aspects of how UR is run. A ruthless culture of excellence as the only acceptable business strategy. Excise the substandard.

[Lurgan Lad]

When I read about us being labelled as bottlers it implies we are a talented team that on the big stage doesn't perform. Perhaps we simply aren't as good as some think we are. If we are going to rely on Leinster cast offs and a quality NIQ here or there we are never going to win anything.

There's nothing wrong with the quality of the players. McCloskey deserves to be talked about in the same sentence as Bundee or Henshaw. Hume last season was better than Ringrose by a long shot. Lowry was good enough last year to be considered genuine competition for Keenan (who is now widely regarded as one of the world's best FBs). The only second row in Ireland that's definitely better than Henderson is Jenkins (and when Henderson is on form you wouldn't even concede that). Last season, Baloucoune was one of the most exciting wings in Ireland. Moore is one of the best THs in Ireland. Our hookers are all excellent and are in squad terms as good as any other team bar Leinster (still arguable though - I'd take our second and third choices over theirs). Until recently Stockdale was on a trajectory towards being one of the best Irish wingers ever. Even Doak who has been so awful recently (come back Shanners all is forgiven) looked like he had the potential for greatness until recently.

The quality of players is there, we just aren't getting anything out of them. That's a coaching issue.

I do agree with you, there is a coaching issue, and by the sounds of it there is also a culture issue. As others have said when you look at Leinster there is a ruthlessness, that comes from you either bring your A game every week or you are out. We don't have the strength in depth to produce that level of competition.
I do think there is a quality of players issue. You have picked some positions but lets go through the pack from Saturday and where they are in the Ireland pecking order:
1 Andy Warwick. Probably 4th choice for Ireland at best.
2 Rob Herring. 3rd choice for Ireland.
3 Tom O'Toole/Marty Moore. Probably 3rd choice for Ireland at best, depending on the coach.
4 Alan O'Connor. Guessing, maybe 9th or 10th choice at best.
5 Treadwell. 5th choice?
6 Matty Rea. Not in the top 10.
7 Timoney. Probably 5th or 6th.
8 Vermeulen. 1st choice-3rd choice depending on the coach.

There you have it, how can we seriously compete at the business end of the season when Leinster would have the ability to produce two packs that would best ours?

[StandUp]

McFarland is Guru of sports psychology, allegedly. What's the approach around so called professional players that find a defeat that embarrasses the history of Ulster as a province and takes the pish out of fans who pay hard-earned cash for travel, tickets season tickets, merchandise etc as a laughing matter as UR try to justify selling their substandard "product" to us Year after year.

This is a so called professional organisation and players. No longer game amateurs giving up their time and money for the love of Province And game. Privileged and well paid.
They must be judged as professionals as we all are in our own jobs. As far as I'm concerned this gives the UR fans the right to criticise UR as an organisation, management/ players as appropriate- rather than some of the watery "awww bad luck/ they tried their best" shyte and spineless lack of justifiable criticism from some quarters. For fear of offending ffs. That attitude reinforces the mediocrity.
What should UR learn from Leinster? Ruthlessness in all aspects of how UR is run. A ruthless culture of excellence as the only acceptable business strategy. Excise the substandard.

+1
I hope Johnny Petrie lodged his sizeable boots up a few ars£holes with extreme force today. This kind of shyte must never be tolerated.

[Jackie Brown]

McFarland is Guru of sports psychology, allegedly. What's the approach around so called professional players that find a defeat that embarrasses the history of Ulster as a province and takes the pish out of fans who pay hard-earned cash for travel, tickets season tickets, merchandise etc as a laughing matter as UR try to justify selling their substandard "product" to us Year after year.

This is a so called professional organisation and players. No longer game amateurs giving up their time and money for the love of Province And game. Privileged and well paid.
They must be judged as professionals as we all are in our own jobs. As far as I'm concerned this gives the UR fans the right to criticise UR as an organisation, management/ players as appropriate- rather than some of the watery "awww bad luck/ they tried their best" shyte and spineless lack of justifiable criticism from some quarters. For fear of offending ffs. That attitude reinforces the mediocrity.
What should UR learn from Leinster? Ruthlessness in all aspects of how UR is run. A ruthless culture of excellence as the only acceptable business strategy. Excise the substandard.

Aye dead on, it's jobs for the boys.

Sent from my Pixel 5 using Tapatalk

[UlsterNo9]

Aye dead on, it's jobs for the boys.

Sent from my Pixel 5 using Tapatalk

How long before we see Buzz Davidson back on an Ulster coaching ticket?

[Dave]

Aye dead on, it's jobs for the boys.

Sent from my Pixel 5 using Tapatalk

How long before we see Buzz Davidson back on an Ulster coaching ticket?

Well he's looking for work I believe,

[Columbo]

When I read about us being labelled as bottlers it implies we are a talented team that on the big stage doesn't perform. Perhaps we simply aren't as good as some think we are. If we are going to rely on Leinster cast offs and a quality NIQ here or there we are never going to win anything.

There's nothing wrong with the quality of the players. McCloskey deserves to be talked about in the same sentence as Bundee or Henshaw. Hume last season was better than Ringrose by a long shot. Lowry was good enough last year to be considered genuine competition for Keenan (who is now widely regarded as one of the world's best FBs). The only second row in Ireland that's definitely better than Henderson is Jenkins (and when Henderson is on form you wouldn't even concede that). Last season, Baloucoune was one of the most exciting wings in Ireland. Moore is one of the best THs in Ireland. Our hookers are all excellent and are in squad terms as good as any other team bar Leinster (still arguable though - I'd take our second and third choices over theirs). Until recently Stockdale was on a trajectory towards being one of the best Irish wingers ever. Even Doak who has been so awful recently (come back Shanners all is forgiven) looked like he had the potential for greatness until recently.

The quality of players is there, we just aren't getting anything out of them. That's a coaching issue.

completely agree.. I've seen some baby-with-the-bathwater stuff in the reaction, reading things like "Timoney / Lowry / Hume / Herring / AOC etc etc are just rubbish..." er, no they ain't, if they were then getting humped by a strong side wouldn't be a big deal. We have a very good squad, not the depth of Leinster or the big French sides but who else does??

We're playing with essentially the same squad of players as last year, and we conceded more than 35 points once all last season, this season we're currently doing it every other match. Our attack is blunt and predictable against any decent side. We have not addressed the glaring problems we have with killing off teams when we are in a position to do so, or launch a fightback when the chips are down (StandUp makes a good point - if you're coaching a side playing against Ulster, no matter what happens you'll be telling them "these guys are mentally weak, keep plugging away and they'll collapse...") Our recruitment hasn't been great - messing about on the periphery of the squad, and I don't know if I'm alone to think this but I'm not that convinced by the DV signing, he's doing ok for us this year, but a big step down from Coetzee IMO. All of these are coaching / management issues.

It feels a little like we've been coasting this season, on the assumption that things will sort themselves out when push comes to shove.. Dan is right that he has credit in the bank, but I'd say he's also smart enough to know that in professional sports, any amount of credit gets burnt through pretty quickly if things turn sour. If we go zero from 4 in Europe, which is a live possibility, and end up mid-table in the league, he'll be under pressure to fix things quickly.

La Rochelle is suddenly a massive game - a win would settle the nerves, another mauling will leave us in a bad place..

[Dave]

A reduced euro campaign is going to impact the coffers. Nevermind the already poor attendances to date. Who will want to watch euro and league dead rubbers between now and May.

[justinr73]

It’s certainly not inconceivable that we’ll be sitting on zero points from three in Europe but we’ll be doing well ie really badly to be playing too many dead rubbers in the league given we’ve six wins from eight and seven bonus points.

Love it how a bad defeat brings a couple of posters out of the woodwork though.

Almost as if they’re pleased to see us lose….

[CIMANFOREVER]

It’s certainly not inconceivable that we’ll be sitting on zero points from three in Europe but we’ll be doing well ie really badly to be playing too many dead rubbers in the league given we’ve six wins from eight and seven bonus points.

Love it how a bad defeat brings a couple of posters out of the woodwork though.

Almost as if they’re pleased to see us lose….

That'll be me then

[Dave]

It’s certainly not inconceivable that we’ll be sitting on zero points from three in Europe but we’ll be doing well ie really badly to be playing too many dead rubbers in the league given we’ve six wins from eight and seven bonus points.

Love it how a bad defeat brings a couple of posters out of the woodwork though.

Almost as if they’re pleased to see us lose….

I suppose there could be a plucky defeat to look forward to.

[justinr73]

It’s certainly not inconceivable that we’ll be sitting on zero points from three in Europe but we’ll be doing well ie really badly to be playing too many dead rubbers in the league given we’ve six wins from eight and seven bonus points.

Love it how a bad defeat brings a couple of posters out of the woodwork though.

Almost as if they’re pleased to see us lose….

That'll be me then

Welcome back

Maybe the one good thing to come out of Sunday’s surrender at Sale will be some increased traffic on the form!

[Jetstream]

It’s certainly not inconceivable that we’ll be sitting on zero points from three in Europe but we’ll be doing well ie really badly to be playing too many dead rubbers in the league given we’ve six wins from eight and seven bonus points.

Love it how a bad defeat brings a couple of posters out of the woodwork though.

Almost as if they’re pleased to see us lose….

That'll be me then

Welcome back

Maybe the one good thing to come out of Sunday’s surrender at Sale will be some increased traffic on the form!

Forum as you say needs more traffic. We need a bit of argy bargy.

[allezlesverres]

It’s certainly not inconceivable that we’ll be sitting on zero points from three in Europe but we’ll be doing well ie really badly to be playing too many dead rubbers in the league given we’ve six wins from eight and seven bonus points.

Love it how a bad defeat brings a couple of posters out of the woodwork though.

Almost as if they’re pleased to see us lose….

I suppose there could be a plucky defeat to look forward to.

At this stage I'd probably be pretty pleased with plucky defeat v La Rochelle. I fear we won't get even that. Soon we will be like the NI soccer fans - reduced to cheering rapturously when the team does something mediocre - like choosing which colour of crayon to eat with their latte.

[MightyRearranger]

When I read about us being labelled as bottlers it implies we are a talented team that on the big stage doesn't perform. Perhaps we simply aren't as good as some think we are. If we are going to rely on Leinster cast offs and a quality NIQ here or there we are never going to win anything.

There's nothing wrong with the quality of the players. McCloskey deserves to be talked about in the same sentence as Bundee or Henshaw. Hume last season was better than Ringrose by a long shot. Lowry was good enough last year to be considered genuine competition for Keenan (who is now widely regarded as one of the world's best FBs). The only second row in Ireland that's definitely better than Henderson is Jenkins (and when Henderson is on form you wouldn't even concede that). Last season, Baloucoune was one of the most exciting wings in Ireland. Moore is one of the best THs in Ireland. Our hookers are all excellent and are in squad terms as good as any other team bar Leinster (still arguable though - I'd take our second and third choices over theirs). Until recently Stockdale was on a trajectory towards being one of the best Irish wingers ever. Even Doak who has been so awful recently (come back Shanners all is forgiven) looked like he had the potential for greatness until recently.

The quality of players is there, we just aren't getting anything out of them. That's a coaching issue.

completely agree.. I've seen some baby-with-the-bathwater stuff in the reaction, reading things like "Timoney / Lowry / Hume / Herring / AOC etc etc are just rubbish..." er, no they ain't, if they were then getting humped by a strong side wouldn't be a big deal. We have a very good squad, not the depth of Leinster or the big French sides but who else does??

We're playing with essentially the same squad of players as last year, and we conceded more than 35 points once all last season, this season we're currently doing it every other match. Our attack is blunt and predictable against any decent side. We have not addressed the glaring problems we have with killing off teams when we are in a position to do so, or launch a fightback when the chips are down (StandUp makes a good point - if you're coaching a side playing against Ulster, no matter what happens you'll be telling them "these guys are mentally weak, keep plugging away and they'll collapse...") Our recruitment hasn't been great - messing about on the periphery of the squad, and I don't know if I'm alone to think this but I'm not that convinced by the DV signing, he's doing ok for us this year, but a big step down from Coetzee IMO. All of these are coaching / management issues.

It feels a little like we've been coasting this season, on the assumption that things will sort themselves out when push comes to shove.. Dan is right that he has credit in the bank, but I'd say he's also smart enough to know that in professional sports, any amount of credit gets burnt through pretty quickly if things turn sour. If we go zero from 4 in Europe, which is a live possibility, and end up mid-table in the league, he'll be under pressure to fix things quickly.

La Rochelle is suddenly a massive game - a win would settle the nerves, another mauling will leave us in a bad place..

This is more or less how I feel about it. I wouldn't even say that La Rochelle is a 'must win' game, so much as Ulster need to put in a good performance. The last 120 minutes of rugby Ulster have put out have been absolutely horrific, I've no inside line on the happenings around the squad, but given where Ulster were when BMcF took over, he deserves some time to try and turn it around.

At the game on Sunday, I was trying to remember what the last time there was a performance like that. Though there might have been one or two since, the first place my head went was the Ulster Team under Mark McCall after things started to fall apart. Hopefully we don't follow a similar trajectory now, at the time some of the abuse he got was utterly ridiculous. Now he's one of the most highly regarded coaches in the game.

With respect to Cave, he's always struck me as fairly sharp and his comments are often measured. He played through that era, is likely still in contact with a lot of the squad and almost certainly has a better insight than most of the people on here in terms of what it's like from inside the squad, so would tend to listen to him. Much as the performance on Sunday was utterly abject, some of the hero to zero reaction is also ridiculous. Last year in particular, there was upset on here when some of the squad weren't getting the recognition with Ireland we thought they deserved, and now they're apparently all over-rated and not good enough...