Ulster vs Stade Toulousain 13/01/24 TNT Sports

[jean valjean]

It all depends on the seedings. Where would 9 points put us in the rankings? We could still end up with an English team away which is not a forgone defeat.

[Big Smoke Culchie]

I don't go in for the "Dan's not the man" arguments, but perhaps he's taken us as far as he can. He turned round a sinking ship and made us a very good team again, but since the Scarlets Two left everything has gone downhill. He either needs his support staff to step up or they need to be replaced. Our set piece is a shambles. That is unforgivable, really. Soper has been a major disappointment for me. Last year our attack was stick it up the jumper and maul it over the line. It's interesting that tactic doesn't work any more now Vermeulen has gone. This year it's fling it as wide as you can as early as you can. Toulouse were well wise to that last night.

I believe the talent is there, but the coaching setup is letting them down.

[Deraless]

Massive gulf in class.
Bigger, faster, stronger, more skillful, clearer heads.
A world cup winning prop and a front 2 rows of the scrum who have been capped got absolutely rinsed by both Toulouse front rows.
Hendy might get near the Ireland squad, Timony and Stewart on tackle bag duty, but if Stockdale or Bobby B get near Ireland duty the God 'elp us all.

[Dave]

We need to bin this woke plastic pitch and expansive game plan idea. Let's go back to Brexit ball. Up the jumper, rolling mauls, muddy pitches, jumpers for goal posts etc... We need to stick to our strengths. The french don't like it up em. We didn't put it up em. We need some artificial mud on this pitch at least. Has to be British mud though.

[Bart S]

Win next week and 2/4 is realistically OK .
Lose and it will be 2/8 in Europe over 2 seasons, which isn't good enough.

Ulster has every motivation now for next week. Win and qualify.

Being outside the top 16 in Europe would not be a good look

[CIMANFOREVER]

Win next week and 2/4 is realistically OK .
Lose and it will be 2/8 in Europe over 2 seasons, which isn't good enough.

Ulster has every motivation now for next week. Win and qualify.

Being outside the top 16 in Europe would not be a good look

Realistically we are.
We're barely top 8 URC.
Lots to unpack. Toulouse like the true professional outfit they are, kept the foot on the throat and ensured we didn't even get a LBP.

We have no serious depth anywhere bar hooker.
Some young backs have stalled or failed to develop significantly under DFs watch .
Hendo is 32- our only other Lock sticks in the first team squad are Treadwell, AOC and?..... Sheridan is a hybrid, oh, Matty...
Ditto Loose- below Mad Kid we've no one credible- Andy is a decent scrummager but not EPCR class. It says reams about EOS that Andy is ahead of him at 32.
Herring is also 32- bar Stewart, who?
TH- TOT and a very green SW. MM is in the last leg of an injury plagued career.
Lock as above- 2 academy Ireland U20 locks but they look 19 and 20... Beanpole cubs
Back Row- McCann, Sheridan, McLaughlin, McNabney, Reffell, Timoney, Marcus Rea give us some future depth and hope. Ewers seems unlucky with injury and is 32.

9- Cooney is 34 and was exposed facing true class- Doak has many flaws and needs away from UR to develop. Who else?
10- ??? Disaster. Flannery has potential but do we trust UR to develop him? Billy......
Wings- Stockers, the increasing liability of RB and who? Moxham? McElroy? Sexton? none bar Stockdale should be near our first team squad let alone Ireland.
Centre- Luke and Mac are 32- Hume is a primadonna, Postletwhaite- heard about potential but saw nothing yet.

FB- Addison is 32 and injury riddled, Lowry not physically up to this level and Stewart doesn't get a look in...Little, who was miles better than all our wingers bar Stockdale, quits Pro rugby- why?.....

That team ran up the white flag when a LBP was on- body language near the end was shocking.

Some of those young guys have/ had potential but I just believe there's a shocking lack of warrior or winning culture at UR, with too much complacency and poor player development. I also believe there's an underlying issue between players and DF- something is definitely amiss.
Toulouse were always going to win with that squad- it was the lack of belief and capitulation that dismayed me. Contrast with an injury strewn Munster with a good coaching team.

McFarland and that coaching team need removed if we could afford it.

[CIMANFOREVER]

Win next week and 2/4 is realistically OK .
Lose and it will be 2/8 in Europe over 2 seasons, which isn't good enough.

Ulster has every motivation now for next week. Win and qualify.

Being outside the top 16 in Europe would not be a good look

No chance- Quins are a good side and have everything to play for. I hope this rings the death knell for DFs reign similar to Kiss and Wasps.

[solidarity]

Win next week and 2/4 is realistically OK .
Lose and it will be 2/8 in Europe over 2 seasons, which isn't good enough.

Ulster has every motivation now for next week. Win and qualify.

Being outside the top 16 in Europe would not be a good look

Realistically we are.
We're barely top 8 URC.
Lots to unpack. Toulouse like the true professional outfit they are, kept the foot on the throat and ensured we didn't even get a LBP.

We have no serious depth anywhere bar hooker.
Some young backs have stalled or failed to develop significantly under DFs watch .
Hendo is 32- our only other Lock sticks in the first team squad are Treadwell, AOC and?..... Sheridan is a hybrid, oh, Matty...
Ditto Loose- below Mad Kid we've no one credible- Andy is a decent scrummager but not EPCR class. It says reams about EOS that Andy is ahead of him at 32.
Herring is also 32- bar Stewart, who?
TH- TOT and a very green SW. MM is in the last leg of an injury plagued career.
Lock as above- 2 academy Ireland U20 locks but they look 19 and 20... Beanpole cubs
Back Row- McCann, Sheridan, McLaughlin, McNabney, Reffell, Timoney, Marcus Rea give us some future depth and hope. Ewers seems unlucky with injury and is 32.

9- Cooney is 34 and was exposed facing true class- Doak has many flaws and needs away from UR to develop. Who else?
10- ??? Disaster. Flannery has potential but do we trust UR to develop him? Billy......
Wings- Stockers, the increasing liability of RB and who? Moxham? McElroy? Sexton? none bar Stockdale should be near our first team squad let alone Ireland.
Centre- Luke and Mac are 32- Hume is a primadonna, Postletwhaite- heard about potential but saw nothing yet.

FB- Addison is 32 and injury riddled, Lowry not physically up to this level and Stewart doesn't get a look in...Little, who was miles better than all our wingers bar Stockdale, quits Pro rugby- why?.....

That team ran up the white flag when a LBP was on- body language near the end was shocking.

Some of those young guys have/ had potential but I just believe there's a shocking lack of warrior or winning culture at UR, with too much complacency and poor player development. I also believe there's an underlying issue between players and DF- something is definitely amiss.
Toulouse were always going to win with that squad- it was the lack of belief and capitulation that dismayed me. Contrast with an injury strewn Munster with a good coaching team.

McFarland and that coaching team need removed if we could afford it.

As good a summary of where we are as I've seen. A decent run in the Biro pen cup is as much as we can hope for in the near future.

[CIMANFOREVER]

We're all die hard supporters on here TBF Solids. Even when I'm bitchin I want Ulster to do well. None of us want anything other than ( reasonable) success for the team and players as people, representing our Province, but apart from some hopefully decent back row talent and a couple of front 5, by god I think we're in real trouble.

We are losing the arms race, even within Ireland; Westies seem to be getting to be ahead of us, and Munster seem to find both guts in adversity as well as good young forwards constantly.

I worry a couple of flukey decent results will again gloss over the rot at the core of UR from the schools and youth up. Some great people at clubs, schools and youth level not seeing the fruits of their hard work and dedication, as UR lets the edifice of a once great Province crumble around it. P*ssing away the legacy of so much great talent/ history with ineptitude, shamateurism and cronyism.

[fermain]

Amen!

[HammerTime]

100% We're getting our asses handed to us on a plate from the Senior team right down through every single age grade. It will take a serious amount of effort, thought, money and time (10 years at least) to get it sorted and because of this it will never happen. Money will just be thrown at journeymen and the odd top player in the hope of a quick fix. A once great province, practically unbeaten in the 80's has turned into a sh!tshow. The benefits and advantages from being the first Irish European winner in 99 were never realised. We got a free stadium which is a complete money spinner but it' has been p!ssed up against the wall.

[jean valjean]

Win next week and 2/4 is realistically OK .
Lose and it will be 2/8 in Europe over 2 seasons, which isn't good enough.

Ulster has every motivation now for next week. Win and qualify.

Being outside the top 16 in Europe would not be a good look

Realistically we are.
We're barely top 8 URC.
Lots to unpack. Toulouse like the true professional outfit they are, kept the foot on the throat and ensured we didn't even get a LBP.

We have no serious depth anywhere bar hooker.
Some young backs have stalled or failed to develop significantly under DFs watch .
Hendo is 32- our only other Lock sticks in the first team squad are Treadwell, AOC and?..... Sheridan is a hybrid, oh, Matty...
Ditto Loose- below Mad Kid we've no one credible- Andy is a decent scrummager but not EPCR class. It says reams about EOS that Andy is ahead of him at 32.
Herring is also 32- bar Stewart, who?
TH- TOT and a very green SW. MM is in the last leg of an injury plagued career.
Lock as above- 2 academy Ireland U20 locks but they look 19 and 20... Beanpole cubs
Back Row- McCann, Sheridan, McLaughlin, McNabney, Reffell, Timoney, Marcus Rea give us some future depth and hope. Ewers seems unlucky with injury and is 32.

9- Cooney is 34 and was exposed facing true class- Doak has many flaws and needs away from UR to develop. Who else?
10- ??? Disaster. Flannery has potential but do we trust UR to develop him? Billy......
Wings- Stockers, the increasing liability of RB and who? Moxham? McElroy? Sexton? none bar Stockdale should be near our first team squad let alone Ireland.
Centre- Luke and Mac are 32- Hume is a primadonna, Postletwhaite- heard about potential but saw nothing yet.

FB- Addison is 32 and injury riddled, Lowry not physically up to this level and Stewart doesn't get a look in...Little, who was miles better than all our wingers bar Stockdale, quits Pro rugby- why?.....

That team ran up the white flag when a LBP was on- body language near the end was shocking.

Some of those young guys have/ had potential but I just believe there's a shocking lack of warrior or winning culture at UR, with too much complacency and poor player development. I also believe there's an underlying issue between players and DF- something is definitely amiss.
Toulouse were always going to win with that squad- it was the lack of belief and capitulation that dismayed me. Contrast with an injury strewn Munster with a good coaching team.

McFarland and that coaching team need removed if we could afford it.

As good a summary of where we are as I've seen. A decent run in the Biro pen cup is as much as we can hope for in the near future.

We will be away in the last 16 of the challenge Cup as well. Some tricky ties possible there, castre, clermont, Edinburgh etc..

[solidarity]

"We will be away in the last 16 of the challenge Cup as well. Some tricky ties possible there, castre, clermont, Edinburgh etc.."

Struggling to find a silver lining. No logjam of fixtures towards the end of the season?

No, don't be negative. We can get something out of this season... can't we?

[UlsterAreBrill]

I don't go in for the "Dan's not the man" arguments, but perhaps he's taken us as far as he can. He turned round a sinking ship and made us a very good team again, but since the Scarlets Two left everything has gone downhill. He either needs his support staff to step up or they need to be replaced. Our set piece is a shambles. That is unforgivable, really. Soper has been a major disappointment for me. Last year our attack was stick it up the jumper and maul it over the line. It's interesting that tactic doesn't work any more now Vermeulen has gone. This year it's fling it as wide as you can as early as you can. Toulouse were well wise to that last night.

I believe the talent is there, but the coaching setup is letting them down.

Rumour has it last year Dan got a lot more heavily involved in all aspects of coaching so no surprise really that our game was so set piece and forward orientated. He is also clever enough to realise that was our best source of points so we may as well use it. No issue in that for me but if that’s the platform we want to play off (boring as it may be) then own it and build from it. We seem to have moved away from it entirely.

Soper is still an excellent coach however its no real surprise we supposedly “haven’t seen the best from him”. When was the last time we really dominated a pack to let our backs play, or when was the last time we had something of a consistent selection 9-15? There’s only so much you can do

Granted it doesn’t take a genius to figure it out but with Neinaber’s defensive shape involving significant line speed and leaving gaps in the backfield our attack was quite good at exposing that vs Leinster with Burns kicking in behind. If you’re going to be critical of him then at least give him credit when the attacking play does pay off.

[justinr73]

It’s possibly worth pointing out that I’ve seen the likes of Tendulkar, Warne, Bolt, Zidane, McEnroe and er Phil Taylor but your man Dupont is well worthy of a mention in such exalted company.