Dragons Pre Match Q&A with Jonny Petrie

[BelfastBoy2024]

If he's applying for other jobs then his commitment to us must be pretty suspect ...

Applied for and got….

[Columbo]

Apologies, I quickly updated at halftime so the point on Flannery may have been open to misinterpretation. He said that Burns would be leaving but it wasn’t for him to disclose the destination to which someone replied ‘we already know where he’s going to’ and there was no response which I took as confirmation he is going to Munster. Looking back at my wording the point on Flannery may have been open to misinterpretation but I felt JP was clear that him and Doak were two of the options to replace Burns rather than Flannery leaving alongside

Ok gotcha, I misunderstood. But I would say the same thing, a squad with Flannery / Doak as out-half options, regardless of any other signings, is weaker than this season’s… I don’t see Flannery as a top flight 10, and definitely don’t see Doak as one - although I do see him as a top-flight 9, unless of course we start messing him about and playing him 10 half the time

I think the truth is that the sooner we can move on from Logan-esque waffle to concrete signing announcements the better

[Columbo]

On VAT I would very much like to know what he’s talking about - apart from anything VAT is levied in Ireland as well. I’m not an expert on VAT in the south but struggle to see why Ulster should be at any meaningful disadvantage.

In the UK VAT will be due on the full selling price of tickets sold at the standard rate of 20%

In RoI:
ADMISSION OF SPECTATORS TO SPORTING EVENTS (Exempt by derogation in accordance with Art. 371)
Value-Added Tax Consolidation Act 2010 (VATCA 2010) Ref Schedule: 1 Paragraph: 14(4)

I could see the argument Petrie had if this was something new, however it appears to have been the way since 2010.

Thanks Merv I think Ulster no 9 is spot on, this isn’t something new, I would also quibble slightly with a characterisation of this as a ‘cost’ Ulster have to bear compared with the other provinces, that depends on your counterfactual (if a similar exemption came into place up here it would result in a reappraisal of pricing strategy, and the net cash flow impact would depend on the strategy chosen) That said I think most research into the impact of VAT exemptions show that most of the benefit is captured by companies rather than consumers so probably fair to accept that Ulster suffer somewhat by comparison. I’d be interested to know what representations Ulster branch have made to head office to agree compensation in whatever funding mechanism the IRFU uses to ensure that Ulster aren’t disadvantaged by this, which is completely outside of their control - my guess is none we’ve just limply accepted it and stood politely in the background.

[Big-al]

Apologies, I quickly updated at halftime so the point on Flannery may have been open to misinterpretation. He said that Burns would be leaving but it wasn’t for him to disclose the destination to which someone replied ‘we already know where he’s going to’ and there was no response which I took as confirmation he is going to Munster. Looking back at my wording the point on Flannery may have been open to misinterpretation but I felt JP was clear that him and Doak were two of the options to replace Burns rather than Flannery leaving alongside

Ok gotcha, I misunderstood. But I would say the same thing, a squad with Flannery / Doak as out-half options, regardless of any other signings, is weaker than this season’s… I don’t see Flannery as a top flight 10, and definitely don’t see Doak as one - although I do see him as a top-flight 9, unless of course we start messing him about and playing him 10 half the time

I think the truth is that the sooner we can move on from Logan-esque waffle to concrete signing announcements the better

I’m the opposite of you enmity regards to Doak, I think he’ll develop into a better 10 than 9, he’s not snappy enough at 9.

[muscles]

Good post Columbo. Presumably the IRFU counter argument would be that we got a new stadium for free.

On using the new plastic pitch to increase its use for sports & non-sports activity UR advised the planners that it would not lead to “…a growth in the volume of activity which the pitch will host”
(Objection response for Planning Committee information (23/6/23)). To placate influential residents? Generating additional income in this way may be problematic at least in the short term. Would love to see business case to IRFU & whether this undermined it somewhat, especially when embarking on this capital investment while Club is, was & will be leaking money like a sieve.

https://planningregister.planningsystem ... ion/492194

[CIMANFOREVER]

Good post Columbo. Presumably the IRFU counter argument would be that we got a new stadium for free.

On using the new plastic pitch to increase its use for sports & non-sports activity UR advised the planners that it would not lead to “…a growth in the volume of activity which the pitch will host”
(Objection response for Planning Committee information (23/6/23)). To placate influential residents? Generating additional income in this way may be problematic at least in the short term. Would love to see business case to IRFU & whether this undermined it somewhat, especially when embarking on this capital investment while Club is, was & will be leaking money like a sieve.

https://planningregister.planningsystem ... ion/492194

We didnt get a stadium free per se- they (IRFU) did- the IRFU got off Scot free, and own the land- it was paid for by UK taxpayers money. So who actually owns the stadium? I assume the IRFU without coughing up a penny, unlike Turnipstan

[earl the beaver]

Good post Columbo. Presumably the IRFU counter argument would be that we got a new stadium for free.

On using the new plastic pitch to increase its use for sports & non-sports activity UR advised the planners that it would not lead to “…a growth in the volume of activity which the pitch will host”
(Objection response for Planning Committee information (23/6/23)). To placate influential residents? Generating additional income in this way may be problematic at least in the short term. Would love to see business case to IRFU & whether this undermined it somewhat, especially when embarking on this capital investment while Club is, was & will be leaking money like a sieve.

https://planningregister.planningsystem ... ion/492194

I believe that Ulster have permission for more events at Ravenhill than we currently play due to the reduced number of league and European games so there is definitely room to host more things.

[CIMANFOREVER]

Good post Columbo. Presumably the IRFU counter argument would be that we got a new stadium for free.

On using the new plastic pitch to increase its use for sports & non-sports activity UR advised the planners that it would not lead to “…a growth in the volume of activity which the pitch will host”
(Objection response for Planning Committee information (23/6/23)). To placate influential residents? Generating additional income in this way may be problematic at least in the short term. Would love to see business case to IRFU & whether this undermined it somewhat, especially when embarking on this capital investment while Club is, was & will be leaking money like a sieve.

https://planningregister.planningsystem ... ion/492194

We didnt get a stadium free per se- they (IRFU) did- the IRFU got off Scot free, and own the land- it was paid for by UK taxpayers money to the tune of £15m. So who actually owns the stadium? I assume the IRFU without coughing up a penny, unlike Turnipstan. They also get the majority of our TV revenues,gate from QFs etc as I understand, with a tranche repaid. Kingspan was £10m over 10 years so I assume £0.4m per year that UR have to replace.

[Deraless]

And in 3 or 4 years hence we won't have to travel to Dublin for higher capacity play-offs, if we ever get to any.

Will be interesting to see if that works out any cheaper for Ulster.

[Cockatrice]

Who at Ulster Rugby was at fault for the debacle v LaRochelle?

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And does he think fans are stupid enough to believe the monetary loss of one fixture has left Ulster in complete financial ruin.

Ferris said on the Viaplay URC podcast the other day that apparently that cancelled match cost Ulster £1million

That’s well documented, nothing new from Ferris here.

Correct.

But it doesn't stack up, it doesn't take an accounting degree to cross reference the 21/22 accounts vs 22/23 to note the swing is much bigger than £1mil..... also bare in mind it has grown arms and legs from the 700k Petrie originally reported, which no doubt was over egged at the time in any case.

Two disrupted seasons of Covid didn't finish us, one game vs La Rochelle did..... note government hand outs were greater in 22/23 to Ulster vs 21/22....

2022 close EBIT £714,332
2023 close EBIT - £937,226
Difference £1,651,558..... this is significantly greater than any initial over egged 700k which has been even further over egged to £1mil

A fish rots from the head.

And why during this same period did Ulster Rugby purchase a domestic house on Ravenhill Park (which remains vacant to this day) for £490,000 plus without mortgage ??????

[justinr73]

You don’t expect Damian McKenzie to have to drive to the ground, do you?

Mrs Rea has been given 12 months to do the place up for him before he signs.

Werner Kok is going to live in the treehouse in the meantime.

[Cockatrice]

Why if we're so broke did you sign off on the expense of a plastic pitch?

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Because D4 payed for it in full…

[Columbo]

Why if we're so broke did you sign off on the expense of a plastic pitch?

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Because D4 payed for it in full…

Well they funded it with a loan - whether it’s a loan we have to pay back, or a ‘Munster loan’ remains to be seen!

[Deraless]

And why during this same period did Ulster Rugby purchase a domestic house on Ravenhill Park (which remains vacant to this day) for £490,000 plus without mortgage ??????

Is that where big JTA stayed? He walked out home every night with the great unwashed.

[Cockatrice]

Why if we're so broke did you sign off on the expense of a plastic pitch?

Sent from my Pixel 7 using Tapatalk

Because D4 payed for it in full…

Well they funded it with a loan - whether it’s a loan we have to pay back, or a ‘Munster loan’ remains to be seen!

My understanding was it wasn’t being repaid but I suppose it can always be used to hold over our heads