Mike Reid & Co - time to deliver

[browner]

stu wrote...........

No one has a crystal ball and no one can promise that this or that will guarentee success, but surely it's pretty clear that doing the same things over and over again and expecting a different outcome is daft.

Yep..............playing shyte rugby week in week out is a sore point with me.

You would hope that as part of the review of structures etc that was carried out they would have taken a sample of the clubs around the world who are consistently successful - Tigers, Munster, Toulouse, Stade Francais, Canterbury etc and studied what they do both on and off the field to achieve their success (they are not consistently successful by accident) and what elements of it can we implement.

Well i don't know but i do know we don't have the finances nor the depth and quality of playing staff of the clubs you have mentioned.

[bogboy]

Sorry the millstone of the maze was not put on are necks by the IRFU

It was placed on everybodies necks by the SIB-- E Potts and Departmental wishful thinkers

and once in place those under its weight had to adjust to their will

Most recognised it for what it was --- a non starter

But Lisburn CC ? media etc wouldn't let the opportunity drop


If poeple in charge of an organisation consider they are going to have every decision questioned on the basis of hindsight

no decision would ever be made

with regard to finance (IMO) the budget is set by IRFU and can be supplemented locally with a possible overdraft limit
set by the IRFU

such control gives little room to manoeuvre to those in charge at a local level

and I would guarantee if you put 5 members of this site in a room and said to them we have £ 100'000 for another player or two players they would take a week to agree whether to have one or two additional players never mind agree what positions and who?

[Cap'n Grumpy]

Sorry the millstone of the maze was not put on are necks by the IRFU

It was placed on everybodies necks by the SIB-- E Potts and Departmental wishful thinkers

and once in place those under its weight had to adjust to their will

Most recognised it for what it was --- a non starter

But Lisburn CC ? media etc wouldn't let the opportunity drop

I didn't know Lisburn Cricket Club were involved in this.

Were they planning to move away from Wallace Park?

(Bigger games only, perhaps - North Down? Waringstown?)

[browner]

Sorry the millstone of the maze was not put on are necks by the IRFU

It was placed on everybodies necks by the SIB-- E Potts and Departmental wishful thinkers

and once in place those under its weight had to adjust to their will

Really

Look the IRFU should have had the foresight to see that but they were happy enough to hold out for a freebie unlike the assistance given to Munster.

[Lurgan Lad]

I think there is a lack of accountability and transparency in Ulster Rugby. I don't get the impression there are clear lines of responsibility and I also don't feel UR communicates with it's supporters well enough. I think they could also improve their PR department and really promote the Ulster Rugby brand throughout the province and further afield. Even simple things like spelling and grammar on their web site could be better. I don't want to be too negative with one of my first posts, but another way of looking at it is that they could improve greatly in different areas.

[darkside lightside]

Feck sake D/L...........are you a peeler?

no although I do like using handcuffs at the weekend

those questions might look hostile written down like that - but they are perfectly routine job interview type questions, in fact just reading them again, they're pretty tame stuff.

D/L wrote..........

I'm not against transparency or against flagging up areas that can be improved, but i get the impression rightly or wrongly that there are those that want a scapegoat,someone for the chop etc etc..........that type of management does not impress me.

I can only speak for myself - I have no interest in looking for a scapegoat, and agree that that is a destructive and ineffective reaction to mismanagement or underperformance in a business. But a simple fact of life and of business is that if you don't produce results, you can only expect to find yourself under pressure, and I don't see why UR should be any different.

I don't think that you should see a more professional governance structure the kind of short-term, reflexive, knee-jerk type of affair that you can see in football for example - but there's no reason why a more 'normal' structure couldn't offer stability and clarity.

[Cap'n Grumpy]

I have interest in looking for a scapegoat,

Is that wot you MEANT to type?

[darkside lightside]

I have interest in looking for a scapegoat,

Is that wot you MEANT to type?

whoops no good spot, i was busy watching barca cleaning the floor with utd at the time!

[sagacious]

Darkside,

I agree.
Looking for a scapegoat is a destructive and ineffective reaction to short term mismanagement/under-performance. I'm sure you would agree that continual under-performance or mismanagement without penalty is also destructive and leads to inefficiencies.

The question is therefore has sufficient time been given to Ulster Rugby to allow for achieving success in their goals. The goals must align with supporters expectations and ultimately the supporters judge the success.

Do we, as supporters, think Ulster Rugby has had enough time to be successfull?

In my opinion yes, Ulster Rugby has had plenty of time. Not getting to the knock-out stages of the Heineken Cup since we won it in 1999, winning the Cetic League in the same year that there was the controversy about the Anglo-Welsh Cup. How many Irish international players did we have from Ulster that year? 5 out of 25 squad members, but only one Ulster player was in the starting team at any time. I expect more from the Ulster Rugby Club.

Ulster Rugby was in good shape and should have capitalised on the good times. Ulster Rugby should have a sustainable foundation to build on, but too many bad decisions have been made and the cost coupled with the economic downturn has been greater than originally thought. It is very very sad and not good enough.

[darkside lightside]

I don't think that you should see a more professional governance structure the kind of short-term, reflexive, knee-jerk type of affair that you can see in football for example - but there's no reason why a more 'normal' structure couldn't offer stability and clarity.

re-reading this, I don't know what this lot of bollo means, I really should have paid attention to what i was writing. What I mean is that I wouldn't use the footy structure as a goal or benchmark, if that's what some people are thinking about as an alternative to the status quo.

[cables]

Is the existence of a multi-layered committee structure a source of delay?

Can committees be set up such that multiple references back to higher committees are not required for decisions to be agreed by an organisation?

Consider a multi-layered committee structure and the terms of reference between committees:

Representative committee - elects Executive Committee.

Executive Committee - refers an appointment to an existing Standing Committee (5) with the authority to appoint noting any budgetry constraints re the appointment. Automatic referral (agreed in Standing Orders at the start of each term) may avoid an Executive meeting for a given appointment.

Standing Committee - sets up an Interview Committee (3) from within their membership to recommend an appointee. This could also be in advance at the first meeting of a new Standing Committee.

The Standing Committee schedules a meeting immediately after the final meeting of the Appointments Committee to receive the recommendation and provided the Appointments Committee are all agreed and the appointment would be within budget where is the problem or delay?

The only need to refer back would seem to be where the budget needs to be increased to enable the recommendation of the Standing Committee.

?

[bogboy]

The only asset worthy of the name which UR possess are the seats in the stand

and no ground improvements can be made with Government Grant Aid

Very little could be raised on the Land because no bank would give a substancial loan secured by the Ground at Ravenhill since its use is defined and to try and clear the site for any other use would be a substancial outlay

Therefore the only other method of raising money would be a Loan offering rights to a seat for a period of time (say ten years) --- only problem you have sacrificed the income for ten from the new Stand for 10 -- income that could have been used to pay players etc

(NB I know it was done In Croke Park but GAA is not Professional ???!!! and your talking of an 80000 capacity stadium not 15000 sell 5000 seats on a 10 year basis is 1/3 of your potential income at Ravenhill )

Of course the IRFU are force to go were the government money was going ---- the Maze

[ColinM]

The only asset worthy of the name which UR possess are the seats in the stand

and no ground improvements can be made with Government Grant Aid

Very little could be raised on the Land because no bank would give a substancial loan secured by the Ground at Ravenhill since its use is defined and to try and clear the site for any other use would be a substancial outlay

UR dont possess seats in the stand, the IRFU do. UR possess the product to make those seats generate an income.

Why cant grant aid be used on the ground, if say the maze pot was split between the 3 sports?

Nothing can be raised on the land by UR as its owned by the IRFU. The outlay you talk about would be minimal compared to the development potential of Ravers.

[bogboy]

IRFU ==UR

with regards to the development of Ravenhill are one and the same

and even if they could raise a loan then the Interest would have to be paid on it

lets say UR borrowed 8 million and had to an interest rate of 4 % per annum on it

And I am sure the gate money is not sent to IRFU but retained by UR to meet the costs of the team etc thus while the seats maybe" owned "by the IRFU the income goes to UR

There is of course the the other aspect which is that the ground is used for games etc not involving the Professional team and the income therefrom is bespoke for purposes other than the professional team eg Schools Cup Club matches etc

[Rooster]

At the end of the day we need more cash to compete, tickets prices need to go up by at least 25%, even then we would still be behind Leinster.
If we want a competitive team that can get the likes of Elsom on the payroll the only way to do it is pay up, times are hard at present but we all need to dig a bit further into the pockets and not cry if they suddenly do put prices up.