lovesthehardground wrote:ARGHHHH!!!! Kidney is a absolute to$$er.
Ok lets play Earls in place of Trimble. Build up his confidence back on the wing. Ballix. If Trimble is the 1st choice winger ahead of Earls then play him this week. Earls will get his chance against Russia. No this is to ensure no backlash from Tirnipland. How dare Ulster have more players in the starting XV than Munster??!!
Then why give Murray his first start and not play him with his Munster team mate outside him. Would that not have offered him more comfort?
On another thread many many have called for a settled Ulster team at the start of the season. Love to see their thoughts on this concoction of a side.
If we had won our warm up games and had a settled team and a style of play I could see the sense of not putting the 1st team out against USA and saving them for Australia. But we didn't win any of those games and worse still the standard of play stank.
So either Kidney is resting players for next week risking the fact that we have no game plan, no confidence and basically no idea. Or this is his first choice team.
Either way he is flawed. This team is flawed.
Irish rugby is a joke and unfortunately this joke is about to be played out in front of a world stage. Anger and frustration by the bucket load!!!
LTHG, I think you're being slightly over emotional in your analysis to the selection my friend. Think on it again. Remember the last World Cup and EOS was selecting the same team for about 3 years. This will not be the same side that starts against the Aussies. Trimble is clearly ahead of Earls on current form, however Earls needs to start to find some form as if Trimble or Bowe gets injured then Earls starts on the wing against Aus without gametime it could be trainwreck rugby. Trimble has his form and confidence in the bank from the warm-up games and he isn't that brittle in character to cry into his cornflakes over not being selected. Earls is in the squad whether we like it or not, to bury the head in the sand and hope that he never has to play in the WC isn't what I would call forward thinking. Having said that if Earls has a mare get him off pronto and ship him back to Turnipland ASAP!!
I also can't understand the logic saying ROG should start because Murray would be more comfortable with him. Murray has been selected to play in the World Cup, if he is only comfortable passing to one guy he is an unneccessary passenger. He will have to get used to playing with Sexton if he is to be a regular starter for Ireland. I personally don't think this will be a problem. I'm hoping that Murray will be a real find for Ireland in the WC like I think Felix Jones could have been too but for injury.
Glad to see murray picked but totally agree with previous comment it would be much more stable to play o'gara with him. Absolutely horrendous decision to leave out trimble I'm sure he's rightly pi$$ed off. Do not agree at all the he needs a rest, he's a professional player in great form and I'm sure chomping at the bit to play every second!
Keith; I think, if there is anything to read into this selection at all, you are misreading it. It's not necessarily that Trimble needs a rest. It's that Earls needs to find form and comfort on the wing. He played on the wing in only one of the four warm up games and has spent much of the season at Munster in the centre. An injury to Bowe or Trimble and Earls is in. I'd like to have seen Trimble given a chance to cut loose against USA but Ireland should still do a job without him. Dare I remind everyone of Trimble starting the 2010 6 Nations on the wing against Italy before Earls came in for the rest of the tournament? Same difference here, I'd imagine, only with the roles reversed.
LTHG; I don't, at all, agree with your analysis although I do see sense in what you say. Ireland messed up at the last World Cup. They sucked bad. They sucked worse than bad. At the time, a lot of it was attributed to O'Sullivan selecting basically the same players for all of the games. Ireland were pants against Italy at Ravenhill with an almost full strength side so what should have been a warm-up romp against Namibia turned into a full-strength selection to try to get some form but they were brad pitt in that game too. So the team needed more time together before Argentina and France so they were put out again against Georgia where they were even more pants. By that stage, it was too late to do anything and Ireland embarrassed themselves successively against the French and Argentinians. The World Cup was over. The inquest began.
I'm glad that Kidney doesn't seem likely to repeat this pattern of selection; he's gone with the guts of a first-choice XV against USA, presumably with the aim of having some units who didn't play much together in the warm-ups (centres, specifically) primed for Australia but also with the aim of posting a good win and a decent score. The others that aren't in - O'Brien, Trimble and Kearney specifically, should all be chomping at the bit to get out and do a job on Australia. This seems eminently sensible to me - it leaves built-in room for improvement, prevents complete burnout and keeps everyone on their toes for selection against Australia, Russia and Italy. It's an entirely different approach to O'Sullivan and a clear indication that there's no panic about the form in the build up. This is polarly opposite to O'Sullivan's poor reactionary calls.
As a final point; I don't get this 'protect Murray by selecting O'Gara' point - Sexton is the first choice 10 and there's clearly a hope that Murray can make himself the first choice 9 in time for Australia; given that the other options have hardly cemented their reputations is quality international 9's we can seriously hope Murray is up to the job. On that basis, the half-backs are selected as the (potentially) best unit. The only sense in selecting O'Gara at 10 would be if Murray isn't in contention to play against Australia. Australia is not the game to test out an inexperienced half back partnership that has about 100 minutes of rugby together under their belt.
I think there's far too much negativity about Kidney in these parts. He's deserved criticism at times over the last season or two but I don't think this selection is one of those times. It seems to me that there's just residual dissatisfaction with Kidney and people will use any excuse to beat him with a stick, regardless of the potential reasons and eminent sensibility of some of his decisions.
NeilF- in fairness you're right I'm not totally sure where I picked up on resting Trimble from! That aside I appreciate Earls may be needed for cover but is that not the point of having 4 warm up matches, it surely points to poor management by kidney that he needs to use a real world cup match to give someone game time? If that's the case it would seem that he views the USA match as easy enough to give players game time, given our struggles against the liked of namibia/Georgia I worry that could be a very costly decision to take!
What a bummer of a thread, some sensible heads in amongst a large welter of large lassies chemises (wise up Pete - histrionic ballix) with out a lulu of the fact that this is no better than the fourth ranked team in the group.
Do you expect Deccie to send out the heavy artillery as if he was a lunatic like Eddie? Its the US of A for jeezsakes, get the run of yourselves lads, this is a perfectly sensible selection for the job in hand.
Big-al:cheers: Snipe, Rooster, as usual, Neil F: more or less
Dave: Dave Dave Dave, do you ever put a foot wrong? You Da Man Davyboy.
NEVER MOVE ON. Years on, I cannot ever watch Ireland with anything but indifference, I continue to wish for the imminent death of Donal Spring, the FIRFUC's executioner of Wee Paddy & Wee Stu, and I hate the FIRFUCs with undiminished passion.
I'm not sure I agree with that - I think, ideally, Earls would have had more game time on the wing in the warm ups but the D'Arcy / O'Driscoll fitness situation thwarted any potential attempt at that. I think it's obvious that Wallace is the back up 12 and Earls the backup 13 from these selections. A fully fit first-choice centre pairing would, probably, have seen Earls play at least twice on the wing in the warm ups, which would have been more sensible. In a way, this does highlight the O'Driscoll succession problem and is, perhaps, indicative of a mistake that Kidney has made over the past couple of years with his selections but a month or two before the World Cup doesn't leave a lot of time experimentation and it's a bit pointless shoving in guys who wouldn't be heading to NZ to fill up numbers. In short, I don't feel there's a lot more Kidney could have done to give Earls time on the wing for Ireland in the warm up games.
I don't mean to seem blazé about things but given that we've seen Ireland 'A' / Wolfhounds sides utterly demolish the USA at various points over the last few years, I wouldn't be too worried about this Ireland side going out and not posting a score. Putting the likes of Earls, who hasn't played much on the wing, Murray and Jennings in an otherwise strong side is a good call in my opinion; Murray and Earls, in particular, are likely to be options as the tournament goes on and it gives them a chance to find their feet in the team and gives Kidney a chance to see how they fare in an otherwise strong selection. This tact has worked for Kidney in the past, with the likes of Ferris putting their hands up within strong sides against weaker opposition.
The World Cup may well not be a time for experimentation but it most certainly is a time for the use of the wider squad. Ireland want and need to be primed for the Australia game and the knock-out stages and I can see sense in Kidney's ploys and selections thus far. Injuries have dented this a little, though and we definately need to account for that in our discussion of Kidney's selections hitherto.
Interesting team and some clues about selection for Oz. For example, I'd say that barring a shocker with his darts, Best will now start at 2 against Oz. The one thing Fla would need if he was to start such a big game would be game time and he ain't getting it with Best chosen. Reckon Deccie will be looking for 50-60 mins of Best and a fired up Fla for the last 20 or 30 as his 1st choice option at this stage.
On the Trimble thing - if it was Oz we were playing on sunday I'd be surprised that he wasn't starting. However, as has been said elsewhere Earls's disappointing recent performances have included a couple of games in the centre and its' clear that he's seen as the back up 13. He's going to be in the 22 covering wing and centre, plus possibly FB so needs a bit of gametime in these positions.
One thing DK is known to be good at is his man management and I daresay Andy T will not have been left feeling deflated -disappointed maybe as it's a world cup opener but knowing full well that the opportunity is still there and he will be fired up to do well if he gets a chance.
EOS's team at the last RWC was seen as a "closed shop" yet Jennings, Murray, Earls/Trimble, Sexton and Murphy are all examples of where players know that a good or bad performance could make or break their involvement in the big matches coming up against Oz and Italy.
I'd say at this stage from the selection that barring injury or a disaster, at least Boss, McFadden, Paddy Wallace and Buckley will already be looking forward to the Russia match as their only real opportunity to participate in this tournament.
I'd say Trimble is being rested to see if Tommy Bowe can pick up a bit of form, who unfortunately has only had one warmup game. Tommy has had poor form since his injury last December. In the warmups, Trimble has been started on Tommy's side for 3 out of the last 4 outings and Tommy's performance wasn't much better than any of Earls' ones, even at centre.
Some of the Earls criticism is way over the top. Earls is probably one of the most valuable players in the team because of his versatility and I'd hazard a guess that he is also by far the paciest back in the team which will come in handy for keeping tabs on the US winger Ngwenya who I'm sure all Ulster fans are well aware of his ability to score tries.
TMHG wrote:I'd say Trimble is being rested to see if Tommy Bowe can pick up a bit of form, who unfortunately has only had one warmup game. Tommy has had poor form since his injury last December. In the warmups, Trimble has been started on Tommy's side for 3 out of the last 4 outings and Tommy's performance wasn't much better than any of Earls' ones, even at centre.
Some of the Earls criticism is way over the top. Earls is probably one of the most valuable players in the team because of his versatility and I'd hazard a guess that he is also by far the paciest back in the team which will come in handy for keeping tabs on the US winger Ngwenya who I'm sure all Ulster fans are well aware of his ability to score tries.
TMHG,
You are correct in saying that some of Earl's criticism has been over the top, but that is same for many players. Over the top reactions seem to be the norm. However, I don't follow your logic. You say that you are only guessing that Earls is by far the quickest player for Ireland which will be needed for countering Ngwenya's pace. Since Ngwenya is probably the fastest player in world rugby, he skinned Habanna once you know, we have no player to select to match him for pace. Since Ireland employ the drift defence the key is to limit space and make tackles. Unfortunately for Earls he was unable to do so against England. Having said that all that, I do like Earls as a player and hope he has a good game.
TMHG wrote:Some of the Earls criticism is way over the top.
In a way, I agree with you but I think a lot of the criticism misses the point with Earls - any player can make individual mistakes and can even have periods when these mistakes seem endemic to his game (see: Fitzgerald, for example) and whilst these mistakes are worrying, they shouldn't explain the almost-personal criticism that Earls takes from some people. At the same time, Earls' decision-making is worth every single ounce of criticism it receives.
Over the past two seasons, it has become obvious that this is not a transient issue with a young player, yet there has been no real discernible improvement. The bulk of these decisions aren't overly problematic at club / provincial level but they do show up in the international game because they are the sort of mistakes that an entire game can hinge on. Take the butchered chance late against France in Bordeaux with McFadden coming up on the inside as an example.
I've raised this issue on this forum a number of times over the last couple of international test windows; this is a serious worry about Earls when he's out against top-class opposition. He is prone to brain farts that Bowe, McFadden and Trimble are not. I fear that, in no way, is the criticism that is directed towards Earls' decision-making over the top. I think his selection against the USA is a good call because it gives him a chance to work himself into some form and to become a bench option but I dislike the thought of Earls as a first-choice player at this tournament.
TMHG wrote:Some of the Earls criticism is way over the top.
In a way, I agree with you but I think a lot of the criticism misses the point with Earls - any player can make individual mistakes and can even have periods when these mistakes seem endemic to his game (see: Fitzgerald, for example) and whilst these mistakes are worrying, they shouldn't explain the almost-personal criticism that Earls takes from some people. At the same time, Earls' decision-making is worth every single ounce of criticism it receives.
Over the past two seasons, it has become obvious that this is not a transient issue with a young player, yet there has been no real discernible improvement. The bulk of these decisions aren't overly problematic at club / provincial level but they do show up in the international game because they are the sort of mistakes that an entire game can hinge on. Take the butchered chance late against France in Bordeaux with McFadden coming up on the inside as an example.
I've raised this issue on this forum a number of times over the last couple of international test windows; this is a serious worry about Earls when he's out against top-class opposition. He is prone to brain farts that Bowe, McFadden and Trimble are not. I fear that, in no way, is the criticism that is directed towards Earls' decision-making over the top. I think his selection against the USA is a good call because it gives him a chance to work himself into some form and to become a bench option but I dislike the thought of Earls as a first-choice player at this tournament.
Whilst he has improved a lot in recent times I'd say Trimble is still prone to this from time to time.
