Ireland v Wales

[Shan]

BOD and Cave are both definitely outside centres and so the question re Darcy still stands. I actually think McFadden could do a job there and obviously so could Paddy W, Next in line is probably James Downey (signed for Munster, I believe), then young Marshall. That implies Munster don't rate any of their youngsters as I have been told they're also talking to Casey Laulala.
As usual, I have to concede that Kidney's information on the players is better than mine and he clearly thinks he should stick with DOC as a starter and Ryan on the bench. Who am I to argue with him - yet.

McFadden perhaps could do a job there but he'll have to get ahead of Darcy first at Leinster. As things stand he is not better than Darcy.

Paddy Wallace. He was a decent player over the years but really he was never up to Darcy's level and consequently never got ahead of Darcy in the pecking order when Darcy was fully fit.

Downey. Feck. Is that the limit of our ambitions. Guy is average at LR Prem level.

Marshall. He is not ready for this level now.


Darcy was in great form during the World Cup, he is in very good form for Leinster. I know we are all just supposed to accept he is past it because of a few poor performances last year but I have no problem with him. Do I think he is as good as he was in 2004, 2006? No. Do I think he deserves the level of criticism he gets? No.

I know that there is nobody else on this island that can do a better job than he can right this minute at 12. Thankfully DK knows that also. Now if only the fecker would realise than Ryan can do a better job than DOC in the second row I'd be happy. However we are where we are. I hope DOC has a stormer.

Of course I can also see the advantage of having Ryan on the bench as he can cover back row as well. I haven't seen the Welsh team but usually they are pretty decent in the back row. If they make a fool of SOB again I'd be quick to get Ryan on to ensure we don't píss this game away. POM to come on only if we are well ahead with 10 mins to go or if something happens which means he has to come on.

[BaggyTrousers]

I assure you I look forward to reading a multiude of post good bad or indifferent but as for your wish to censor me, I could care less, ya big blether.

Well I can assure you I have no interest in censoring you. I (I would imagine most of the MB) merely wish for you to display some manners. But I have no doubt you will get there.

You have popped up as something of a know it all over the last few days , teacher are we?

[BaggyTrousers]

Well the 6N is likely to determine which of Kidney, Robinson or Gatland gets the job as 2013 Lions coach. Although Gatland is probably favourite given his previous experience and may get it unless Wales have a complete disaster.

Its definately Gatlands to throw away.
I would even take Iris Robinson over Kidney .

You are a dirty boy Jazzbeg, I hadn't anticipated that ,thought you were a gent.

19261_1195093270503_1023576080_30578089_723810_n.jpg (32.7 KiB) Viewed 377 times

[Shan]

Baggy, I hope you are not arguing with yourself again old man.

When those voices make you start doing things it is time to worry.

[big mervyn]

Gentlemen, please have some respect!
Iris Robinson is in hospital.


..... She's eagerly awaiting the birth of her next boyfriend.

[Shan]

The Irish Players went into the warm ups with "a don't get injured" attitude played some games without several key players refused points on offer to try /practice training ground moves in a game situation also played a few experimental combinations and players who didn't go to the world up.

Warm up games are friendlies -- except when England come for revenge .

Definitely not games for statisical analysis

An outrageous suggestion. How dare you suggest than Irish players and management would use world cup warm up games to warm up for the world cup and practice their moves in a match situation rather than use such matches to boost DK's wins to games ratio which is much more important than a bloody silly World Cup campaign.

DL will have you for this.

[BaggyTrousers]

Baggy, I hope you are not arguing with yourself again old man.

When those voices make you start doing things it is time to worry.

Yeah yeah Shan cut the bullshit, I've a serious question for you. Young O'Mahoney, haven't seen much of him and he played 6 when I have seen him but he looks a rangy sort of a boy, could wily old Deccie see him as Ireland's future 7 or is he a defo 6?

Oi, Big Merv, belter by the way.

[Shan]

Baggy, I hope you are not arguing with yourself again old man.

When those voices make you start doing things it is time to worry.

Yeah yeah Shan cut the bullshit, I've a serious question for you. Young O'Mahoney, haven't seen much of him and he played 6 when I have seen him but he looks a rangy sort of a boy, could wily old Deccie see him as Ireland's future 7 or is he a defo 6?

Oi, Big Merv, belter by the way.

No bother old bean.

Tis an interesting one. I'll be honest and say I'm just not sure. All I could say is that I can't see any particular reason why he couldn't do it.

[darkside lightside]

The Irish Players went into the warm ups with "a don't get injured" attitude played some games without several key players refused points on offer to try /practice training ground moves in a game situation also played a few experimental combinations and players who didn't go to the world up.

Warm up games are friendlies -- except when England come for revenge .

Definitely not games for statisical analysis

An outrageous suggestion. How dare you suggest than Irish players and management would use world cup warm up games to warm up for the world cup and practice their moves in a match situation rather than use such matches to boost DK's wins to games ratio which is much more important than a bloody silly World Cup campaign.

DL will have you for this.

funny I don't remember any moves being practiced in those 4 games - that was kind of the problem! when even Gerry and farrelly were starting to panic at the disastrous nature of the warm-up games it shows how far short of expectations we had fallen.. And under any circumstances a test match against France or England is a more meaningful match for Ireland than a match against the USA or Russia.

[darkside lightside]

Here we go, I can't make it any simpler than this:

2009 - Ireland win 90% of games: DL =
2010 & 2011 - Ireland win < 50% of games: DL = then

[darkside lightside]

(and I could add:

2009 - Ireland win 90%: BT, Shan, Neil F etc =
2010 & 2011 - Ireland win < 50%: BT, Shan, Neil F etc = )

[Neil F]

DSLS; I must admit, I do enjoy these back and forths with you. Always a welcome distraction from actual work!

I think you misread the nature of my postings, however; I don't believe at any point in this thread have I stated that I am happy with the wins and losses ratios, Ireland performances or anything of the sort. I've merely suggested that your statistics don't prove that Kidney is doing a bad job. I've made my views on Kidney known at many times on this forum and don't feel the need to repeat them here.

As it stands, however, Kidney is the only coach Ireland will have in charge for this 6 Nations. Let's judge his performance in this 6 Nations on the outcomes over the next month and a half, not on what has happened in the last two years.

[bazzaj]

Shan read your comments about Downey who is a player Ireland have ignored for sometime.
He is over 30 now and a little bit late in the day to be looking at but I think Ireland missed a trick with him.
Centres are a partnership and I think BOD is at his best when he plays with a big off loading centre similar to Downey.
Think of when when he played with Roberts, Maggs or Henderson when he timed late runs off them by picking a line to great effect.
No one is better than BOD at doing this.

Downey was told by Kidney that he would not be going to the WC as he wasnt the sort of centre we was looking for.
I think he was exactly the centre we were looking for.
Far from being rated as average in England I think he was well worth at least a look.
We would maybe not been having this debate about lack of inside centres had he not been given a shot, especially as Darcy plays a good game every 7 matches which seems to justify his place.
We have to give people chances and not just write them off.

[Neil F]

Bazz; whilst I agree strongly with your last point, about trying players, I always have the issue of the Aviva Premiership having never been a good barometer of Irish players' quality. There is a whole litany of players who have looked like world beaters in the AP only to make little impact on the international scene (and, indeed, at times, little impact on the provincial scene when they returned). Off the top of my head; Casey, Cullen, Jennings, G. Murphy, J. Murphy, Reddan. In fact, look at the impact Caldwell is having at Bath as a further highlighting of this. Of course, according to some, the turnaround in Caldwell's fortunes are related to how crap Ulster's coaching staff is or something...

Part of this problem is based in what Graham Henry highlighted recently; the AP is based on slow, possession-based rugby. This helps players like Casey, Cullen and Jennings look really good because the areas in which they are lacking, pace for example, are seldom shown up in a league where players rumble around like Wyndam's triffids, with some semblance of intelligence and communication deep in the background. When on an international pitch, these problems are sharply illustrated because the game is faster and the likes of Casey and Jennings, especially, have been massively shown up.

Downey is a player who I would put in this category. He looks good in the AP; I don't think he'd look so good in the ML. Indeed, I'd be surprised if he'd get a start at either Leinster or Ulster. There is an argument that he should have been tried but I think his abilities are vastly overrated due to the nature of rugby he plays in England. Professional rugby coaches, I'm sure, can also see this, however and it probably goes some way to explaining why he hasn't been tried.

[bazzaj]

Agree with what you are saying Neil but I said I was looking at the partnership more than the player as an individual and to state my point again BOD revels when he plays with a big off loading centre, which is exactly what Downey does.
You are a man who always comes across as knowing his stuff Neil so surely you can see this.
If Darcy was playing scintilating rugby I would not have been fighting Downeys case as much but he was awful at times,therefore someone else was worth a look.
At the time Downey had just played in a European Cup final and the saints had played a terrific brand of rugby throughout the year to get there and nearly win the thing.
Definately deserved a look at in my book.