Dan’s Not the Man.

[justinr73]

Not sure how anyone can pin so many individual errors on the coaching staff.

The players need to take a very hard look at themselves after that.

There’s no jeopardy for them until the rules are changed and they are at genuine risk of being replaced by more non IQs.

Did they make it back to Todd’s before closing time?

[horslips]

I do feel that some have hit the nail on the head with reference to the toxic culture. Now I dont know where that comes from but it should be pretty clear that sacking DMF wont solve the issue. Who put him there on a new contract? Whoever that was, be it an individual or a commitee, needs to go too.
The club should be everything, if you disagree, as managment or player then feck off - no one should be bigger thna the club

[Marco]

Thank God I was watching Cavan playing BHSFP at the time so only got glimpses, but the two sets of lads playing (13-9 to Cavan btw) would have been ashamed of some of that stuff. Going asleep at a line-out FFS? I noted Gary Longwell didn't watch any of it, just some of the Munster game later, which I thought was telling enough.

Will avoid any knee jerk comments, this goes way beyond inconsistency. One thing about money though is that simple maths will tell you that if a winning team will bring in 5000 more per game, at £35 adds up to c £2 million per annum so it makes no sense, no way, not to make change, but who to bring in!

[CIMANFOREVER]

Not sure how anyone can pin so many individual errors on the coaching staff.

The players need to take a very hard look at themselves after that.

There’s no jeopardy for them until the rules are changed and they are at genuine risk of being replaced by more non IQs.

Did they make it back to Todd’s before closing time?

You're right, you can't Justin, but the culture starts with what the coaching team permit or the culture they develop.
I will say I believe there has been a culture of mediocrity and toxicity for years, going back to McCall where some players seem to rule the squad and negatively influence decision making. Would this happen under Cullen/ Niebaber or Rowntree? Doubt it- but both clubs gave been quicker to lance boils- Leinster especially. Players want to play under a culture of excellence or are proud to excel for their province even if limited.
Unfortunately, like football, it's easier removing a coach-I agree with you- I'd happily remove any toxic players, but I do think DF and his team are ultimately accountable.
Be interesting to see how same players,ayers react under a new coach?
Some can be dropped- Hume and Mccloskey for Marshall and Moore ( another played inexplicably not selected in squads). What's the value of exiling Marcus and Issy if there are senior players the issue? Flat track bullying

[HammerTime]

It's at the point now where DMF is costing a shed load more money than it would take to pay him off. Missing out on home playoff games (last year) when they were almost handed to us on a plate as cost a small fortune alone.

[CIMANFOREVER]

Tuesday will presumably tell a tale. Board and Petrie need to convene Monday and say DF has their support....

A new coach will clear that lot out as a condition of taking over I'd say.. but that will cost I presume unless there's some sort of metric for not meeting whatever KPIs DF et Al have been set .. so a payoff then..

[TheBoat]

There will be nothing said and they'll continue on as normal. All is great here lads

Sent from my Pixel 7 using Tapatalk

[So It Is]

There will be nothing said and they'll continue on as normal. All is great here lads

Sent from my Pixel 7 using Tapatalk

Haven't seen post match presser comments yet. Is he in hiding or have I just missed them?

[justinr73]

Not sure how anyone can pin so many individual errors on the coaching staff.

The players need to take a very hard look at themselves after that.

There’s no jeopardy for them until the rules are changed and they are at genuine risk of being replaced by more non IQs.

Did they make it back to Todd’s before closing time?

You're right, you can't Justin, but the culture starts with what the coaching team permit or the culture they develop.
I will say I believe there has been a culture of mediocrity and toxicity for years, going back to McCall where some players seem to rule the squad and negatively influence decision making. Would this happen under Cullen/ Niebaber or Rowntree? Doubt it- but both clubs gave been quicker to lance boils- Leinster especially. Players want to play under a culture of excellence or are proud to excel for their province even if limited.
Unfortunately, like football, it's easier removing a coach-I agree with you- I'd happily remove any toxic players, but I do think DF and his team are ultimately accountable.
Be interesting to see how same players,ayers react under a new coach?
Some can be dropped- Hume and Mccloskey for Marshall and Moore ( another played inexplicably not selected in squads). What's the value of exiling Marcus and Issy if there are senior players the issue? Flat track bullying

Toxic is an overused word these days and one I tend to avoid unless it’s clearly applicable. And I don’t believe it is.

To be clear, I would argue that our players mostly fall into three categories:-

a) Those that aren’t good enough;
b) Those that are but are too comfortable and/or are lacking in the top two inches and
c) Those that have carried us for the last 5-10, most if not all being genuinely international standard players, whose best years are now behind them

It’s not a good mix.

[jean valjean]

https://m.belfasttelegraph.co.uk/sport/ ... 33021.html

Soper was put up for the presser.
I'm not sure I agree with his sentiment - how many of those players would tog out for ulster for no pay? The fans spend their own hard earned money following ulster, buying season tickets etc and the evidence isn't there that the players care as much (cooney the exception). A bit more self reflection and a few less soundbites required. I wonder if Dan will comment on the training last week? Was it up to standard? If so then what happened on the pitch on Saturday. We need some journalists to start asking the hard questions; there is too cosy a relationship there also.

[justinr73]

Treadwell will be for sure but one wonders about some of the others.

[CIMANFOREVER]

Not sure how anyone can pin so many individual errors on the coaching staff.

The players need to take a very hard look at themselves after that.

There’s no jeopardy for them until the rules are changed and they are at genuine risk of being replaced by more non IQs.

Did they make it back to Todd’s before closing time?

You're right, you can't Justin, but the culture starts with what the coaching team permit or the culture they develop.
I will say I believe there has been a culture of mediocrity and toxicity for years, going back to McCall where some players seem to rule the squad and negatively influence decision making. Would this happen under Cullen/ Niebaber or Rowntree? Doubt it- but both clubs gave been quicker to lance boils- Leinster especially. Players want to play under a culture of excellence or are proud to excel for their province even if limited.
Unfortunately, like football, it's easier removing a coach-I agree with you- I'd happily remove any toxic players, but I do think DF and his team are ultimately accountable.
Be interesting to see how same players,ayers react under a new coach?
Some can be dropped- Hume and Mccloskey for Marshall and Moore ( another played inexplicably not selected in squads). What's the value of exiling Marcus and Issy if there are senior players the issue? Flat track bullying

Toxic is an overused word these days and one I tend to avoid unless it’s clearly applicable. And I don’t believe it is.

To be clear, I would argue that our players mostly fall into three categories:-

a) Those that aren’t good enough;
b) Those that are but are too comfortable and/or are lacking in the top two inches and
c) Those that have carried us for the last 5-10, most if not all being genuinely international standard players, whose best years are now behind them

It’s not a good mix.

Avoid toxic if you like but its applicable to many situations, including current UR, and certainly over the last 2 decades - rumours have constantly abounded as they have in the past and have had a semblance of truth. Wilson/ Best era McCall etc Constant rumblings about management styles, players exiled to AIL- justified who knows?

But your 1-3 doesn't cover all plausible scenarios:

Whilst 1-3 you've listed are indeed applicable you've also left out poorly coached and developed - consider some of these players were in the Irish squad a few years ago eg Lowry, RB. They've fallen off a cliff.
We have a small of tranche of forwards coming through who seem to be at the same crossroads RB Hume and Lowry were two years ago. Are you confident DF and his team will develop that potential? Not all will make it to international level but there is surely enough exploitable talent.

Not sure what your ultimate solution is? Stay as we are? Even UR as a business smells of mediocrity - it can't even read a weather forecast. Yet no-one sanctioned. You rot from the head down. For any coach with similar assets not to be competitive or regressive in his 5/6 year tenure is no longer tenable.

Chemical/ Comical Ali is doing a great job for UR PR- nothing to see here- all is well...

[CIMANFOREVER]

https://m.belfasttelegraph.co.uk/sport/ ... 33021.html

Soper was put up for the presser.
I'm not sure I agree with his sentiment - how many of those players would tog out for ulster for no pay? The fans spend their own hard earned money following ulster, buying season tickets etc and the evidence isn't there that the players care as much (cooney the exception). A bit more self reflection and a few less soundbites required. I wonder if Dan will comment on the training last week? Was it up to standard? If so then what happened on the pitch on Saturday. We need some journalists to start asking the hard questions; there is too cosy a relationship there also.

Agreed. It should be raised by Jamie at Stormont

[Marco]

Not for one second suggesting that it would have changed the winner but I watched Ugo Mola last week and OGara this week, standing on the touchline, communicating directly with the players. Our guys stand staring at a laptop, in the heat, walking around. Even just for the optics, you'd think you'd want to get down to at least eyeball a few players, but sure what do OGara and Mola know about winning anything...

[Dave]

Not sure how anyone can pin so many individual errors on the coaching staff.

The players need to take a very hard look at themselves after that.

There’s no jeopardy for them until the rules are changed and they are at genuine risk of being replaced by more non IQs.

Did they make it back to Todd’s before closing time?

You're right, you can't Justin, but the culture starts with what the coaching team permit or the culture they develop.
I will say I believe there has been a culture of mediocrity and toxicity for years, going back to McCall where some players seem to rule the squad and negatively influence decision making. Would this happen under Cullen/ Niebaber or Rowntree? Doubt it- but both clubs gave been quicker to lance boils- Leinster especially. Players want to play under a culture of excellence or are proud to excel for their province even if limited.
Unfortunately, like football, it's easier removing a coach-I agree with you- I'd happily remove any toxic players, but I do think DF and his team are ultimately accountable.
Be interesting to see how same players,ayers react under a new coach?
Some can be dropped- Hume and Mccloskey for Marshall and Moore ( another played inexplicably not selected in squads). What's the value of exiling Marcus and Issy if there are senior players the issue? Flat track bullying

Toxic is an overused word these days and one I tend to avoid unless it’s clearly applicable. And I don’t believe it is.

To be clear, I would argue that our players mostly fall into three categories:-

a) Those that aren’t good enough;
b) Those that are but are too comfortable and/or are lacking in the top two inches and
c) Those that have carried us for the last 5-10, most if not all being genuinely international standard players, whose best years are now behind them

It’s not a good mix.

Avoid toxic if you like but its applicable to many situations, including current UR, and certainly over the last 2 decades - rumours have constantly abounded as they have in the past and have had a semblance of truth. Wilson/ Best era McCall etc Constant rumblings about management styles, players exiled to AIL- justified who knows?

But your 1-3 doesn't cover all plausible scenarios:

Whilst 1-3 you've listed are indeed applicable you've also left out poorly coached and developed - consider some of these players were in the Irish squad a few years ago eg Lowry, RB. They've fallen off a cliff.
We have a small of tranche of forwards coming through who seem to be at the same crossroads RB Hume and Lowry were two years ago. Are you confident DF and his team will develop that potential? Not all will make it to international level but there is surely enough exploitable talent.

Not sure what your ultimate solution is? Stay as we are? Even UR as a business smells of mediocrity - it can't even read a weather forecast. Yet no-one sanctioned. You rot from the head down. For any coach with similar assets not to be competitive or regressive in his 5/6 year tenure is no longer tenable.

Chemical/ Comical Ali is doing a great job for UR PR- nothing to see here- all is well...

You simply can't convincingly argue that it is all or mostly on the player side. As you say CIman, some players are regressing in terms of form. Also you would have to say that there wasn't anything Dan could have done to get a better performance from the players. If it's just individual errors then you could argue that Dan is the victim here. It isn't. There are major systemic issues, particularly in defence. The players seem to have no idea where they are supposed to stand. Really basic organisation is lacking. They couldn't even defend the blindside from a lineout in the opposition half!!!

Dan came here with the idea of implementing this 'fight for every inch' mantra. This has failed. This squad over the last 6 seasons has demonstrated the capacity to the completely capitulate time and time and time and time again....

Dan has failed to implement his own strategy. In fact he is reinforcing the opposite. We are crumbled from the first whistle on Saturday. The best performance of the season (Leinster) and the squad come out and thank Dan Soper. The issues in the squad have been well publicised. You many refuse to believe them. Since they have been confirmed by the resident ITK on here. The guy who can tell us who we are signing well in advance of any announcement. I for one can't discount the presence of these internal issues.

If it's all the players, we should sack them and find new ones. Or we could do what happens in every other professional sport and hold the head coach accountable for performances on the pitch.