Starting XV vs. Llanelli

Talk about the men in white, and everything Ulster!!

Moderator: Moderators

User avatar
Neil F
Lord Chancellor
Posts: 4045
Joined: Thu Feb 07, 2008 1:34 am
Location: Berlin

Re: Starting XV vs. Llanelli

Post by Neil F »

bootlace wrote:Hmmmn so you want to play Trimble at 12 even though he does not have a great pass [your words],which would probably mean that Dewey will not get the ball,I would have thought that the most imortant talent that a 12 has is his ability to pass the ball out to the faster backs :scratch: ,no doubt your obsession with Dewey will ensure some stats that will prove why you feel Dewey is a god.
No stats; just the fact that Dewey was one of, if not the, stand out player at the Churchill Cup and all of that came from playing at 13. The CC showed that Dewey was back to full fitness. Ulster are not so rich in ability that we can afford to leave a fully fit Dewey on the bench.

Trimble does not have a great pass - that doesn't mean that he can't pass, it just means that he doesn't have great long-range distribution and that it isn't the best part of his game. Distribution, generally, is more important when playing 13 than 12 in my opinion, and this is shown by the number of international caps amassed by the likes of Maggs and D'Arcy as 12, despite neither having great distribution - a 12, mainly, shifts the ball on out the line or takes the ball into contact, a 13 has to get the ball out to the wings, or to a fullback coming into the line. Good hands and knowing when to offload, which is something Trimble can do, are required more by a 12. In my opinion, Trimble would work much better playing primarily as a 12. Given that both Trimble and Dewey can play 12 and 13, it is easy enough for those two to switch and change but I would start with Trimble at 12.
Last edited by Neil F on Mon Aug 25, 2008 10:25 am, edited 1 time in total.
User avatar
Shem
Novice
Posts: 138
Joined: Thu Feb 07, 2008 12:38 pm

Re: Starting XV vs. Llanelli

Post by Shem »

1. Young
2. Best
3. Court
4. O'Donoghue
5. Del Fava
6. McCullough
7. Ferris
8. Diack

9. Boss
10. Humphries
11. Trimble
12. Wallace
13. Cave
14. Nagusa
15. Shifty

Although when Danielli is back I would slot him in to 11 and Trimble into 13. Offcourse when Botha is available, he has to start. I just wish we could get Court to loose-head. Never rated Young as a scrummager and in my opinion never really gets too involved in the game. I think Court played a blinder towards the end of last season and on Friday night he was really impressive too.
Shem.

Come on Ulster!!!
Big-al
Lord Chancellor
Posts: 5045
Joined: Sat Mar 29, 2008 10:20 am

Re: Starting XV vs. Llanelli

Post by Big-al »

Trimble is not a 12 its as simple as that. This will be a vital season for trimble as he needs along with williams needs to pick his position he's going to play in and then let him develop his game. Trimble has got no better since his debut season as he has been shifted about from centre to wing.

We are in danger of doing the same thing trimble as what happened to Paddy Wallace.
User avatar
GerryO'
Red Hand Ambassador
Posts: 2280
Joined: Tue Nov 29, 2005 11:14 am
Location: The Sticks

Re: Starting XV vs. Llanelli

Post by GerryO' »

15) Cunningham
14) Nagusa
13) Trimble
12) Dewey
11) Schifty
10) O'Connor
9) Boss
8 ) Diack
7) Pollock
6) Ferris
5) Del Fava
4) Mr Ed :cowboy:
3) Court
2) Best
1) Young

BJ on the bench if he's here
Last edited by GerryO' on Mon Aug 25, 2008 9:32 pm, edited 1 time in total.
THE OLDER I GET THE BETTER I WAS
User avatar
Neil F
Lord Chancellor
Posts: 4045
Joined: Thu Feb 07, 2008 1:34 am
Location: Berlin

Re: Starting XV vs. Llanelli

Post by Neil F »

Al, it's a complete nonsense to say that Trimble hasn't got any better since his debut season. That totally ignores the leaps forward he has taken with his first up defence, contribution to the breakdown and ability to make ground in the contact situation. The last time Trimble played on the wing for Ulster was 3rd March 2007. Since then, he has played about 25 games in the centre for Ulster, as well as 6 or 7 games in the centre for Ireland and he has developed into a much better all-round centre than he ever was as a result.

I agree with you that we need to decide where Trimble's long-term future is and allow him to focus his development in that position but to say that his game hasn't developed in three seasons goes to show how short some people's memories are - in that time, Trimble became a focal point for Ulster's attack and was marked accordingly; like any other good player, when this happened he went off and worked on other areas of his game.

Personally speaking, for Ulster and Ireland, I see that long-term future at 12, both because of Trimble's individual attributes and the attributes of those he will likely be playing with long-term. It really isn't just as simple as saying, "Trimble isn't a 12." He does have a lot of the attributes of a top quality 12 and, arguably, more of the attributes of a top 12 than a top 13. I'm interested to know why people think Trimble couldn't be a 12, especially when he's likely to be playing with Cave for Ulster and perhaps Fitzgerald for Ireland in a couple of seasons.
Last edited by Neil F on Mon Aug 25, 2008 12:28 pm, edited 3 times in total.
Big-al
Lord Chancellor
Posts: 5045
Joined: Sat Mar 29, 2008 10:20 am

Re: Starting XV vs. Llanelli

Post by Big-al »

Heres my team
1)fitzepatrick
2)best
3)court
4)Ed
5)Caldwell
6)Anderson
7)pollock
8)Diack
9)boss
10)Humphreys
11)shifty/cocherane
12)wallace
13)trimble
14)nagusa
15)shifty/bryne
16)brady
17)botha
18)del fava
19)ferris - Matt says he'll not be fit for worcester so will have no gametime
20)willis
21)NOC
22)dewey
Cracker
Squire
Posts: 773
Joined: Tue Jul 15, 2008 4:46 pm

Re: Starting XV vs. Llanelli

Post by Cracker »

Without going over the whole team and having been at both pre season friendies in my view the team must contain Nagusa, O'Donoghue, Shifty and Diack as outstanding and on form signings. I also believe Dewey must start for his sheer line breaking power. Frankly I was concerned about Wallace of Friday night. I lost count of the number of times he failed to pass the ball when other players close by were in the clear. He seemed to prefer to go him,self too often. I remember one occasion when Nagusa was totally unmarked and a simple pass from Wallace would have led to a certain try. There is a place for him on the team but not at the expense of Dewey.
brianc
Warrior Assassin
Posts: 1416
Joined: Wed Aug 29, 2007 7:44 pm

Re: Starting XV vs. Llanelli

Post by brianc »

It certainly seems we have a decent squad anyway!! Very difficult to pick, particularly second row & most of backline. One thing I would be fairly certain of that many posters have not picked up, it seems hugely unlikely that Wallace, Baby Humphs & NOC will all be in the squad. If Wallace starts at 10, either NOC or Humphs will bench, if either NOC or Humphs starts with Paddy either at 12 or benching, then no need for further outhalf cover. That logic would free up a space in many of the squads posted.

Personally I really dont think NOC is the answer, Humphs didnt get long enough for a real opinion, however he appears to make his big brother look like a big tackler!!!!! A good few people have put Hillary on the wing, has he played there before? If not I would be reluctant to put him there against Scarlets, but sentiment aside regarding Bryn, (what a great servant for Ulster Rugby), Hillary looks a better player. So, after some "preamble", starting backline would be:

FB, Hillary
Wings, Timmy & Trimby, (nice ring to that actually!!)
Centres, Dewey & Cave
OH, Paddy
SH, Isaac

Humphs on bench to cover injury to Paddy or move to centre to cover Cave/Dewey

ps Really have no idea how they pick second rows? Caldwell & Carlo may be fit but wont have played much
Big-al
Lord Chancellor
Posts: 5045
Joined: Sat Mar 29, 2008 10:20 am

Re: Starting XV vs. Llanelli

Post by Big-al »

brianc wrote:It certainly seems we have a decent squad anyway!! Very difficult to pick, particularly second row & most of backline. One thing I would be fairly certain of that many posters have not picked up, it seems hugely unlikely that Wallace, Baby Humphs & NOC will all be in the squad. If Wallace starts at 10, either NOC or Humphs will bench, if either NOC or Humphs starts with Paddy either at 12 or benching, then no need for further outhalf cover. That logic would free up a space in many of the squads posted.

Personally I really dont think NOC is the answer, Humphs didnt get long enough for a real opinion, however he appears to make his big brother look like a big tackler!!!!! A good few people have put Hillary on the wing, has he played there before? If not I would be reluctant to put him there against Scarlets, but sentiment aside regarding Bryn, (what a great servant for Ulster Rugby), Hillary looks a better player. So, after some "preamble", starting backline would be:

FB, Hillary
Wings, Timmy & Trimby, (nice ring to that actually!!)
Centres, Dewey & Cave
OH, Paddy
SH, Isaac

Humphs on bench to cover injury to Paddy or move to centre to cover Cave/Dewey

ps Really have no idea how they pick second rows? Caldwell & Carlo may be fit but wont have played much

we've been here with paddy at flyhalf, i think we have decided that his best position is at inside centre. On form we could put cave at 13 which would in turn let trimble go to the wing
WhiteKnightSupporter
Initiate
Posts: 414
Joined: Sun Mar 02, 2008 10:40 pm
Location: Scotland

Re: Starting XV vs. Llanelli

Post by WhiteKnightSupporter »

15. Hillary
14. Timmy
13. Trimble
12. Wallace
11. Cochrane
10. Humphs
9. Boss

1. Young
2. Best
3. Court
4. Ed O'D
5. Matt McC
6. Ferris
7. Pollock
8. Diack

16. Brady
17. Botha
18. Del Fava
19. Henry
20. Willis
21. Cave
22. Bryn
Last edited by WhiteKnightSupporter on Tue Aug 26, 2008 10:49 am, edited 1 time in total.
User avatar
MightyRearranger
Warrior
Posts: 1106
Joined: Tue Dec 13, 2005 2:42 am
Location: Lisburn

Re: Starting XV vs. Llanelli

Post by MightyRearranger »

Rooster wrote:Shifty has to play as we have no other reliable kicker in the squad, we would have won more games last year if we had, a reliable man with the boot put pressure on opposition as regards penaltys within range it's far more than 3 points on the board.
Does anyone actually know what his range is out of interest? There have been kicks on the opposition 10m line that were turned down, but that's probably just because it was a friendly. Would be nice to get back to the days of Simon Mason, where you'd expect any penalty in the opposition half and some in your own to go between the uprights.
User avatar
MightyRearranger
Warrior
Posts: 1106
Joined: Tue Dec 13, 2005 2:42 am
Location: Lisburn

Re: Starting XV vs. Llanelli

Post by MightyRearranger »

As for my XV I'd pick a different one depending on the weather. If it's dry I'd go for:
Clinton
Nagasua
Dewey
Wallace
Trimble
Mini Humph
Boss

Diack
Pollock
Ferris
Del Fava
Caldwell
Court
Best
Young

I think as far as running the ball goes I reckon that'd be our best team, if it was lashing it down though I'd want Bryn, NOC and McCullough to be starting for Dewey, Mini Humph and Pollock. Bryn is possibly the best full back in the country defensively, NOC has a massive boot if it gets down to ten man rugby and McCullough would give the pack a bit more grunt.
brianc
Warrior Assassin
Posts: 1416
Joined: Wed Aug 29, 2007 7:44 pm

Re: Starting XV vs. Llanelli

Post by brianc »

Big Al, I agree to a point about Paddy at outhalf. I just dont like the alternatives so far! Have never thought NOC is really much use at this level, probably being a bit hard on Humphs I know, but maybe he can "ease" his way in from the bench? I thought Paddy looked better at OH than centre on Friday, & was hoping that removing pressure of place kicking might help his overall game. Maybe a bit fanciful!!!

I really think our season revolves around getting OH position sorted, for me it was the main problem last year, & had a disastrous affect on Isaac's game.
User avatar
Shem
Novice
Posts: 138
Joined: Thu Feb 07, 2008 12:38 pm

Re: Starting XV vs. Llanelli

Post by Shem »

Seriously can't believe the lack of people not shifting Humphries into Flyhalf!!! Hellooo People, did I miss something last season? Was Wallace that good that we want him as first choice again this season? I don't think so!
N.O.C didn't break any ground last year either (although he improved greatly in experience and kicking)
I think Humphries has to start to build up confidence and experience as a flyhalf. I think he has the potential to be another Ulster legend as long as he is given a chance. Surely we all see his potential???

Another thing...people leaving Botha on the bench is utter garbage. He's a world class prop and we want to leave him on the bench..what a joke...unless he is majorly underperforming, you give him preference..surely?

This is typical of us Ulstermen, we all seem to have short memories when it comes to our Rugby, I remember last season when McCall got the job with Castres, we all were saying how great a guy he was and how he deserved the job..blah blah bla. And a few weeks earlier the guy was slated on the Ulster forums personally and professionally (I must stress, not by anyone posting on this thread)

Just throwing in my tuppence worth! :stir:
Shem.

Come on Ulster!!!
User avatar
scrum5
Lord Chancellor
Posts: 6078
Joined: Thu Feb 21, 2008 8:42 pm

Re: Starting XV vs. Llanelli

Post by scrum5 »

15. Schifcofske
14. Nagusa
13. Dewey
12. Trimble
11. McCrea / Cochrane
10. Humphreys
9. Willis

1. Young
2. Best
3. Court / Botha if available
4. O'Donoghue
5. Del Fava
6. Ferris
7. Pollock
8. Diack

16. Brady
17. Fitzpatrick / Court if Botha available
18. McCullough
19. Henry
20. Boss
21. Wallace
22. Cave
In memory of Nevin Spence 1990- 15th Sept. 2012
Axel..... 30 October 1973 - 16 October 2016
Pedrie Wannenburg. 2 January 1981 - 22 April 2022.
Post Reply