Ireland v Wales

[Snipe Watson]

Fuzzy and Shan, unlikely bedfellows I must say.

A Larne Limerick consensus of sorts and entirely wrong.

The tackle was perfectly legitimate and in no way gave the referee an option to penalise unless he got it wrong, which unfortunately, he did.
Read the rule and watch the video or even look at Fuzzy's second photo. Did he lift Evans off the ground? No. Did he drop him or drive him into the ground? No. The tackle was not in any way illegal.

I'll bet if Ferris bit him on the nose you'd say it was OK.

Go on ou'ra that Snipe. He lifted him. Element of danger. Penalty but no card.

P. Wallace tried to cost us the game v Wales in 2009 but couldn't quite manage it. Ferris made sure his attempts were successful. Fecking Ulster players. Get rid of them all, except Rory Best of course.

Get away ye Limerick langer ye..... the boys are comin on Easter Sunday to whip turnip on the Turnip patch.

[BaggyTrousers]

by Snipe Watson » Mon Feb 06, 2012 9:36 pm

The tackle was perfectly legitimate and in no way gave the referee an option to penalise unless he got it wrong, which unfortunately, he did.
Read the rule and watch the video or even look at Fuzzy's second photo. Did he lift Evans off the ground? No. Did he drop him or drive him into the ground? No. The tackle was not in any way illegal.

Of course its illegal.

His upper clearly makes contact with the ground before his hips/upper leg area. This is illegal tackle. He doesnt have to be dropped head first or driven into the floor for it to be illegal. His 2 feet are off the ground and his body has gone past the horizontal, the second picture I posted is still in the middle of the tackle, check it out closer to completion in the 3rd photo.

You cant just pick and choose your evidence Snipe. Its there for all to see.

Fuzzy you can't rely on photographs, the Welsh player knowing his progress is halted in the vice like grip of Stevie, is heading to the ground. Was he tipped or did he fall? Did he go to ground because of Ferris or to protect the ball? Such matters can't be judged from photos.

I don't know the letter of the law but if it doesn't, it should state that the tackle should be considered dangerous to be 1) a penalty 2) considered worthy of a yellow or red card.

It was clearly not a dangerous tackle or even close to it.

Anyway I'm exiting this, I don't wish to come across as saying "we was robbed" - actually we were come to think of it, but it didn't really feel like that & again we deserved to be robbed for many reasons.

[Dave]

Wasn't Ferris' fault the welsh player clearly did a hand stand when tackled. Dirty trick

[cables]

Firstly I believe the citing window in the 6 Nations is 48 hours from the end of the game - around tea time tomorrow. The tournament organisers then have administrative matters to finalise before we may be informed of any citing arising from the I v W game.

The photos posted would be of absolutely no use to determine if there was lifting involved or not. To determine that would require frame by frame analysis from immediately prior to the first contact.

I don't know Achille Reali (citing commissioner for the game) but I am aware that he has fulfilled that role for a number of years and at a high level. He will be aware of IRB directives on tip-tackles and he is perhaps cursing that he has to decide on two in the one game.

Were I he (very obviously not) I would at least consider my position as to whether I should (not could) cite one but not the other even though I clearly recognised a very wide difference between the actions of the two players.

I believe there is an element in citing where the commissioner role is 'passing up' an incident 'for further investigation and determination'. What his determination is could well lie within his own level of more general confidence.

We should get one, we may get two - should know within 24 hours.

BTW, Gatland's statements regarding his player having been cited may be correct OR it may just be his belief that a citing will result. (He probably had the opportunity to talk to the citing commissioner after the game.)

[Snipe Watson]

by Snipe Watson » Mon Feb 06, 2012 9:36 pm

The tackle was perfectly legitimate and in no way gave the referee an option to penalise unless he got it wrong, which unfortunately, he did.
Read the rule and watch the video or even look at Fuzzy's second photo. Did he lift Evans off the ground? No. Did he drop him or drive him into the ground? No. The tackle was not in any way illegal.

Of course its illegal.

His upper clearly makes contact with the ground before his hips/upper leg area. This is illegal tackle. He doesnt have to be dropped head first or driven into the floor for it to be illegal. His 2 feet are off the ground and his body has gone past the horizontal, the second picture I posted is still in the middle of the tackle, check it out closer to completion in the 3rd photo.

You cant just pick and choose your evidence Snipe. Its there for all to see.

I'm taking all the evidence including Ferris' body angle the direction of his momentum, Evans' left foot on the ground until both players were almost on the ground and the letter of the law.

Law 10.4(j) reads: Lifting a player from the ground and dropping or driving that player into the ground whilst that player’s feet are still off the ground such that the player’s head and/or upper body come into contact with the ground is dangerous play.
The five tells of a tip-tackle are:
1 The tackler comes to a stop -Not met
2 Grasps the ball carrier below the hips -Met (one leg only)
3 Lifts him straight upwards -Not met
4 Turns him upside-down -Not met
5 Lets him go or drives him to the ground -Not met

That's 1 out of 5. It's really only 0.5 out of 5, but I'll round up.

Ferris drove into the ball carrier, lifted one of his legs off the ground and drove him backwards.

The tackle was brutal, but not illegal.

You believe what you want. I'll just stick with the laws of the game.

[cyril]

by Snipe Watson » Mon Feb 06, 2012 9:36 pm

The tackle was perfectly legitimate and in no way gave the referee an option to penalise unless he got it wrong, which unfortunately, he did.
Read the rule and watch the video or even look at Fuzzy's second photo. Did he lift Evans off the ground? No. Did he drop him or drive him into the ground? No. The tackle was not in any way illegal.

Of course its illegal.

His upper clearly makes contact with the ground before his hips/upper leg area. This is illegal tackle. He doesnt have to be dropped head first or driven into the floor for it to be illegal. His 2 feet are off the ground and his body has gone past the horizontal, the second picture I posted is still in the middle of the tackle, check it out closer to completion in the 3rd photo.

You cant just pick and choose your evidence Snipe. Its there for all to see.

??? he did pick him up.take a look

[bazzaj]

by BaggyTrousers » Mon Feb 06, 2012 10:20 pm

Going further I don't think, indeed I'm certain that I have never seen a player penalised for a "tip tackle" having only tackled one leg.

Check out Nz v Sa 20 seconds into this video.... Granted a hell of a lot more extreme than Ferris.

Infact, theres a few in this.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZuAEl37q1Ng

That compilation was great and led me to say that was and wasnt was throughout.
However I think what refs look for in the main is whether the tacklers own arms contorts above his shoulders and and his elbows are at the highest point.
If you do that in the modern game you will be penalised regardless on whether the opponent is driven or what part of the body the opponent hits the ground.

Again I will pose the question why is it not reffed like that when you are coached to pick a leg and drive the opponent into the ground in order to clear rucks?
It is dangerous or it isnt whether you have the ball or not.

[Rooster]

ffs it's now Tuesday, match is over, result stands and whether it was a penalty or not does not matter one feck

[rocky]

But it does matter that Davies is cited for what he did. If they let that go, it will send out completely the wrong message. I've no great problem if Ferris is cited as well although I don't think he did much wrong - I believe he would be cleared.

[Big-al]

Does anyone else see comparrisons between Jonathon Davies (not jiffy) and Nevin Spence at 13? Neither player are renowned for their passing, but I reckon we should be looking to turn Spence into a Davies type 13, what with his hard lines, power and pace.

[Setanta]

Amazing that so much discussion and emphasis is placed on this discretion,which does not happen very often. For me the current scrum deserves much more attention. OK, the injuries are not immediate or shocking but long-term this 'hit', crashing together cannot be good for anyone. Now I'm old and played in the amateur days(the only money involved was 'boot money') for twenty years. We used to go down front-row first, then locks, then back-row. The ball had to be put in straight and you coudn't push until the ball went in. Penalties were for putting the ball in crooked or pushing early.
1) it was safer and healthier
2) it was quicker
3) the referee did not need to bother with the dark arts(that was our job!)
4) you just needed to recognise a crooked feed or an early push - even blind Dave could manage that

So someone tell me where's the improvement?

[Rooster]

But it does matter that Davies is cited for what he did. If they let that go, it will send out completely the wrong message. I've no great problem if Ferris is cited as well although I don't think he did much wrong - I believe he would be cleared.

True Rocky but it being argued about here won't make a blind bit of difference and as you say Ferris would be cleared, Davis for an off the ball attack like that deserves at least 8 weeks, probably get a 2 week ban then

[bazzaj]

ffs it's now Tuesday, match is over, result stands and whether it was a penalty or not does not matter one feck

Think you are missing the point Rooster as people still playing or coaching the game need clarification as to what is acceptable and what is not.
For example I will say again, if I pick a leg and tip a player to clear a ruck from now on can I expect to be penalised and or sent from the field of play?
Watch any game and you will see several instances of this happening.
I regularly do this and have it done to me without any consequence or complaint to date.

Setanta totally agree with you about the scrums.
Was making the exact same point on Sunday.

[cables]

A number of experts around here will have red faces today.

Decision time now for the legal team and IF unfortunately.

[bazzaj]

I suspect we all will have red faces.
Fearing the worst.