4 weeks for Afoa

[Cap'n Grumpy]

I believe if we can't thrash Embra one man down, then we don't deserve the final anyway.

Much as I agree with you on this, when you get to this stage of a competition, you take the final whether deserved or not.

I'll be happy to scrape into it by a drop goal wiping its feet on the way over 8 minutes into stoppage time, having been played off the park by an Embra team that has failed to take its chances if that's what it takes ........ not that I believe in luck/fate etc, but I might even be tempted to think our name was on the cup if that happened.

Of course I'd much rather be well clear and cruising with 20 to go, thank you very much.

To be clear Skipper, I expect we will give Embra the rounds of the kitchen in a way not dissimilar to how Leinster crushed Caaaaaaaaaaaadiff after 20 minutes.

Many are scared to be so positive with all manner of crap about how they are good in the HC this year. However true or not you believe that to be, we are well on top of them in recent games having had them as a bogey for quite sometime when you could never fathom how we could struggle against such dross.

Whatever way you cut it a quick look at the best XV of each club and its men against boys. If we were playing Leinster the weight of not having been competitive against them in ages would give them that mental advantage. We will have that.

Neutral ground is a joke too, this will be a huge home match, with Embra apparently only requesting 3000 tickets. Playing in front of 37000 at Murrayfield is one thing, at the Aviva it will be a massive Ulster crowd with a few Haggis-munchers.

I predict a riot, no team has ever had a semi-final that looks more winnable for the "home" team. And we will win it.

Amen Brother!

[Loki]

i share Bagster's optimism.

4 weeks seems fair and it looked like an obvious citation live. Think the club should have just taken the high ground and acknowledged fault with a liner about obvious disappointment. JA's clearly not a dirty player but that was a foolish moment in the heat of battle.

[John_e_boy]

for what it's worth, the talk amongst officials is

What, pleaded not guilty but still got a reduction?

. Understanding was that if you plead not guilty you lose the right to some sentence reduction.

puzzled me for sure.

[John_e_boy]

According to the papers (BT ) Munster didn't refer the matter to the citing Officier . This of course looks like Irishmen looking after Irishmen -- not to well received by Frenchmen ( the assumption being the Irish won't discipline their players we must ) - who want the player banned for 4 weeks. Teach these Irish men a lesson ve hav vays of making you sorry .

Can't say its low end-- have to say its a red card-- middle offence if they try to make it a top end offence they shoot a French referee not good politics for a French man .

So start with the answer 4 weeks and formulate the decision to suit .

Proper manner to approach to French would have been for Munster to complain but Jones to mitigate by saying Afoa tried to hold him up !!

The truth is the Irish do discipline their thugs -- we export them to France

The reality is the player can't plead guilty because the the offence the ban can be anything from 3 weeks to 12 months

plead guilty and you could walk out with 12 months the defining of the seriousness of the offence being a matter of opinion not a matter of fact . Thus the reasoning behind the ban of 4 weeks is a b-llsh-t

I have to say some of the conspiracy theories on this issue are pretty funny!

Really, there's no conspiracy, there's nothing untoward going on. Big John performed a red-card tackle, wasn't seen by the ref, got it awarded retropsectively and will sit out his ban. Just like Warburton, Brits, Estebanez, Batlle, Davies and Gough to name but a very recent few.

[bazzaj]

I think the key to this was your initial reaction to the tackle.
I know mine was that it was iffy and big John could be in trouble.
If you found yourself feeling the same its because it actually was an iffy tackle.
It may not necessarily be dangerous or the guy may not have been hurt but the law is what it is sadly.
Has POC been cited for his in the air tackle against IH which did incidently hurt him by the way?
If the rules are applied to the same degree surely that was a yellow?

[John_e_boy]

I think the key to this was your initial reaction to the tackle.
I know mine was that it was iffy and big John could be in trouble.
If you found yourself feeling the same its because it actually was an iffy tackle.
It may not necessarily be dangerous or the guy may not have been hurt but the law is what it is sadly.
Has POC been cited for his in the air tackle against IH which did incidently hurt him by the way?
If the rules are applied to the same degree surely that was a yellow?

I understand what you're saying, but let's not forget the IRB have an official zero-tolerance policy on the Tip/Spear tackle. That's the big, big difference here.

[bazzaj]

They are clearly trying to eradicate this tackle but I do not believe that Afoas or SFs in the 6 nations was any less intentional or dangerous than POCs.
The Bradley Davies one on Ryan is a different kettle of fish but sometimes in the heat of battle people just mis-time and get the hit wrong and are punished in a similar way.
I think out of 160 odd hits by us last week its amazing we had just the one citing under that pressure and scrutiny.

[John_e_boy]

They are clearly trying to eradicate this tackle but I do not believe that Afoas or SFs in the 6 nations was any less intentional or dangerous than POCs.
The Bradley Davies one on Ryan is a different kettle of fish but sometimes in the heat of battle people just mis-time and get the hit wrong and are punished in a similar way.
I think out of 160 odd hits by us last week its amazing we had just the one citing under that pressure and scrutiny.

Well it seems that all the referees I know and the ERC citing commissioner and citing panel disagree with you aul han!

Our defence was immense last week. I watched the game again last night and kept having to stop and go back to watch some of the tackles we were putting in. Immense!

[RedKC]

Correct Mike - I have read that one also.


The Judicial Officer determined that 1 week should be add to the 6. This was NOT for not pleading quilty - it was a decision to combat a pattern of offending within the game generally.

Agree with you completely Cables, if he is unfortunate at all its is simply that for him to be the bearer of an additional week as a deterrent to others is perhaps unlucky for a mature player of previous unblemished character but of course the mitigation is near as damn it to maximum.

I believe if we can't thrash Embra one man down, then we don't deserve the final anyway.

Surely its unfair on one particular player to issue an extra week as a deterrent. The ban itself should be the deterrent, I doubt very much if next week a player goes into a tackle and lifts his opponent up in the air to drive him into the ground is going to think "hang on a minute I might be banned for an extra week here like yer fella john over there". If disciplinary comittees want more of a deterrent then they should upgrade the suspensions for all levels of offences not cherry pick here and there when an extra slap on the collective wrist is necessary.

[John_e_boy]

Surely its unfair on one particular player to issue an extra week as a deterrent. The ban itself should be the deterrent, I doubt very much if next week a player goes into a tackle and lifts his opponent up in the air to drive him into the ground is going to think "hang on a minute I might be banned for an extra week here like yer fella john over there". If disciplinary comittees want more of a deterrent then they should upgrade the suspensions for all levels of offences not cherry pick here and there when an extra slap on the collective wrist is necessary.

the way I see it - and I'm pretty much following the IRB line here because I'm in full agreement - if the offence is still being repeated despite your best efforts (directives, punishment increases etc etc) then you do need to go for an extra deterrent.

As for being unfair on John, sorry but there have been plenty of cases recently where extra punishment has been handed out for deterrent purposes. Bradley Davies for starters. It's pretty standard practice in fact.

[bazzaj]

They are clearly trying to eradicate this tackle but I do not believe that Afoas or SFs in the 6 nations was any less intentional or dangerous than POCs.
The Bradley Davies one on Ryan is a different kettle of fish but sometimes in the heat of battle people just mis-time and get the hit wrong and are punished in a similar way.
I think out of 160 odd hits by us last week its amazing we had just the one citing under that pressure and scrutiny.

Well it seems that all the referees I know and the ERC citing commissioner and citing panel disagree with you aul han!

Our defence was immense last week. I watched the game again last night and kept having to stop and go back to watch some of the tackles we were putting in. Immense!

I think you miss read my badly put comment.
What I meant with the amount of hits we put in to have only one cited was a remarkable effort by the Ulster team.
I was not implying the citing commision had missed anything.

[mikerob]

Surely its unfair on one particular player to issue an extra week as a deterrent. The ban itself should be the deterrent, I doubt very much if next week a player goes into a tackle and lifts his opponent up in the air to drive him into the ground is going to think "hang on a minute I might be banned for an extra week here like yer fella john over there". If disciplinary comittees want more of a deterrent then they should upgrade the suspensions for all levels of offences not cherry pick here and there when an extra slap on the collective wrist is necessary.

The ERC issued a memo in December 2011 instructing the disciplinary panels that there was a pattern of behaviour for this offence so there should be a deterrent added.

A Perpignan player was up for a tip tackle in January and they actually added 2 weeks deterrent onto the 6 weeks entry point.

It is easier for a competition to specify additional deterrents rather than change the IRB regulations. For the 11/12 season, tip tackles have been 5 out of 13 ERC disciplinary cases even before Afoa, so the ERC clearly thought that the message wasn't getting through.

[ruckover]

Stop arguing, we can't do anything about it. Build a bridge and get over it.

Oi Ruck, I thought you were a man of mature years

Hadn't expected to see you spout yoofspeak.

That just boils my pish.

Have you not read the Medallion Shield thread on skules rgb? You'll find out I'm not as mature or adult as you think I am

I wouldn't exactly call that yoofspeak either. Heard plenty of my elders use that phrase many a time.

[Snipe Watson]

Edinburgh 20 v 42 Ulster
Ulster 38 v 16 Edinburgh

5th Ulster 55
11th Edinburgh 27

Complacency is one thing, but being confident about beating a team that are not as good as us is entirely justified.
I fully expect an Ulster victory

[bazzaj]

Edinburgh 20 v 42 Ulster
Ulster 38 v 16 Edinburgh

5th Ulster 55
11th Edinburgh 27

Complacency is one thing, but being confident about beating a team that are not as good as us is entirely justified.
I fully expect an Ulster victory

I fully endorse this view snipe but how many times do you see a game not going to form in cup rugby or any sport?
This favourites tag is new to us and brings with it different sorts of pressures some of our players are not used to.
Pressure is a real leveller and its all about how we handle it against a side we should beat.

Edinburgh will similarly use this as a motivational tool.
They will play pressure free rugby with nothing to lose which they have done in Europe with success thus far and any side doing that will be a worry.

This is where the leaders such as Muller, Ferris and Pieenar with their experience will earn their dough.
None can under estimate what Afoa brings to our side who is another leader and his loss will boost them further.
Thinking of how we have got on previously without him brings matters into perspective.

IH will need to repeat the defensive performance he had against Munster as he must know whats coming.
Either way I doubt we will ever have a better chance of making the final and if we blow it I will be devastated!