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Correctomundo Ruckoverruckover wrote:Emmm, can anyone fill me in here - I thought they were undefeated in the HEC this yearnamron wrote:"Leinster will become the first team to go through an entire Heineken Cup tournament unbeaten if they see off Ulster. ":D
anyone see a flaw here?
http://www.independent.ie/sport/rugby/h ... 05769.htmlDefensive solidity will not be enough this time
Ulster's honesty reflects the task that is facing them, says Brendan Fanning
When Ulster came out in the immediate aftermath of the semi-final win over Edinburgh last month and said that they weren't happy with the way they played, we thought they might have reached by accident for a line from an earlier outing.
Like their defeat at home by Leinster the previous week. Or losing away to Connacht the weekend before that.
But no, it was the semi-final they were talking about all right -- despite having made it back into the final for the first time since 1999 Ulster were taking time out to be objective.
The more distance you have between then and now, the more you appreciate their dilemma. When Brian McLaughlin came out with that line, he didn't know who they would be facing in the final. He did know however that whether it was Leinster or Clermont, Ulster couldn't expect to survive on so little possession.
"We showed our status as a solid defensive unit in the last two games and scrambled well, but apart from the first 20 minutes against Munster we have not had our hands on much ball," says Ruan Pienaar, their man of the match from that semi-final. "We can't really afford to do that against Leinster. They have world-class players and dangerous backs so it would be a mistake to let them have the ball for 80 minutes, which is more or less what happened against Edinburgh."
And that hadn't been the plan. It's not as if Ulster's South African influence extends so far that they would rather defend all day because culturally they are so in tune with that task. Rather they were up against a side whose ball retention is often very good and whose finishing rarely so. Lucky Ulster then.
Again McLaughlin's team, as they had done in Thomond Park, showed they could defend, having blitzed the home team in the opening quarter, with Craig Gilroy's explosive try its highlight. Not much opportunity for the man on the other wing to stretch his legs though.
Andrew Trimble is one of Ulster's big names, one of their limited number with the experience to be a leader on a big day. So far he's had little to lead with.
"To be honest, I have found that difficult, especially against Edinburgh," he says. "Maybe that's why for me I just felt relief to get through. I didn't get the ball in space; we didn't produce that many phases with the ball in hand so it was difficult to get into the game. I felt it difficult to make my mark in the game.
"I'd like to put that down to not having much ball but there is an onus on me to get myself involved. I've done it in the past and hopefully I will do it in the final. I feel there is more in front of me, I want to make more of an impact on a game than I'm doing at the minute. I want to feel like I'm part of it. I want to contribute to us winning the Heineken Cup. I don't want to be peripheral. I want to make an impact for my team-mates."
Okay, we hear you. And we understand that another rearguard effort, supplemented by the fantastic goal-kicking form of Pienaar, will hardly be enough against a team whose discipline saw them bottom of the yellow card charts in the Pro12, and of course sorted their escape against Clermont in the semi-final.
Can Leinster be better? "I think we have to be better," says forwards coach Jono Gibbes.
That's a sobering point for everyone else given the standards they have set in both competitions this season.
"No, my point is we have to be better because Ulster are going to be another gear up, definitely. The final is going to be the smallest of margins and there's a few things in our game we haven't quite nailed. I think we're going okay at the moment. I'm not being smart, I think we're working on the things that are important to us and that's putting us in a position to challenge for titles and stuff like that.
"That's positive and there's a real day-to-day focus on it so it's hard to look at the big stuff all the time. As I say, what's right in front of us keeps us pretty busy."
That has served them well up to this point. For Ulster to win, they need Gibbes and co to leave a few stones unturned, to fall down in an area that should be sorted. And then they need to extend the first quarter from Thomond Park into something a lot more substantial than anything we saw against Edinburgh. That combination looks like a long shot.
tigerburnie wrote:Well guys good luck next week at twickers,bet you're glad it's only Leinster and not Leicester you're facing
http://www.guardian.co.uk/sport/2012/ma ... cup-celtic
Ulster and Leinster's Heineken Cup success puts focus on Celtic league
Not everyone considers the all-Irish Heineken Cup final to have brought glory on the Rabo Direct Pro 12, but it could be a classic
Eddie Butler
Saturday 12 May 2012 23.00 BST
When a competition spans six countries, a final involving teams from just the one tends to go down indifferently at best in the other five. It had previously not gone unnoticed that Edinburgh had reached the last four in the Heineken Cup, the distance between this place at the high table of Europe and their lowly standing of 11th in the RaboDirect Pro12 not necessarily sitting well with English clubs that have to scrap every inch of the way through their domestic league to European qualification.
Similarly, the absence of Ulster in the Pro12 play-offs only adds to the lack of respect for the Celtic league. Even in Ireland there has been concern about the situation, although from a different angle: how can it be that a country so strong at provincial level – Munster are right up there in the European mix, too – fails to prosper on the international stage? It has not been a great Irish season, either at the World Cup or in the Six Nations. The advance of Leinster and Ulster places a degree of pressure on Declan Kidney, the coach of an underachieving Ireland.
Leinster rise above any criticism. Yesterday they played Glasgow in the Pro 12 play-off semi, having finished top of the regular-season table by a clear 10 points, and next they defend their European title in what will be their third Heineken Cup final in four years. They play with invention, from the Irish player of the year, Rob Kearney at full-back, and the one-cap Fijian, Isa Nacewa on the wing, to the string-puller at fly-half, Jonathan Sexton. They more than survived the absence of Brian O'Driscoll for the greater part of the season, but now the centre is back for the run-in, still highly influential, the example for all to follow about keeping skills and decision-making processes intact under pressure. Leinster play with a flourish, but it is their accuracy in conditions of stress that sets them apart.
None of this would be possible without a pack to provide the ball and offer variety in attack. Cian Healy is excelling in all departments in the front row, the visible half of the propping department, with Mike Ross his unseen but equally effective partner. Brad Thorn is obviously having a ball in the second row. The ancient All Black, in his 38th year and after a life of going back and forth between league and union, is having a blast in his twilight rugby days, hitting rucks with relish and forming a partnership with Leo Cullen that swaps lighthouse tallness for work-rate and durability.
Ulster do not offer such a glittering portfolio or style. They missed out on qualification for the Pro12 play-offs by losing in quick order to Connacht, Leinster and Munster in their final three games of the regular season. This was no all-Ireland celebration of victory over the Cardiff Blues and Edinburgh in the knock-out stages of Europe, but a cruel domestic put-down by their own.
Joe Schmidt, the coach of Leinster, has just pledged himself to the completion of his job in Dublin, despite possibilities opening up for him back home in Auckland, whereas Brian McLaughlin, Ulster through and through, will be heading out of the head coach's job there, down – or at least sideways – into the nursery end of the game. There was no avoiding the sense of another put-down when David Humphreys, Ulster's director of rugby and hero at outside-half of the Heineken Cup victory 13 years ago, announced McLaughlin's departure in the new year, with Mark Anscombe coming in from New Zealand.
The full story has yet to be told of McLaughlin's ousting, but perhaps in the camp of the underdog it provides a little inspiration. Ulster are a blend of imported South Africans and home-grown players. The No8 Pedrie Wannenburg, second row Johan Muller, full-back Stefan Terblanche and, above all, scrum-half Ruan Pienaar excelled against Edinburgh and they bring a palpable sense of confidence to their side.
Stephen Ferris is also all-important in the back row, while Craig Gilroy gives them some zip on the wing and Darren Cave is a real presence in midfield. Chris Henry is the other home-grown player who ties things together. Without their captain and No7, out with an ankle injury, they were a bit disjointed in the semi-final victory. They will also want John Afoa back on the tighthead of the front row after a four-week suspension for tip-tackling Felix Jones of Munster. At their best – and prompted perhaps to be just that for coach McLaughlin – Ulster are ferocious, direct and very intense. If their nerves hold on the big day this will be a close encounter, one perhaps with an Ulster twist.
And a lot more impressive than five of the six competing countries in the Heineken Cup may be thinking. The Celtic League is a decade old and in that time it has produced four winners – about to be five – in the Heineken Cup, while there have been four Celtic grand slams in the Six Nations. Not so rubbish after all.
I don't accept that we have a weaker back division. Ruan, Paddy w and Trimble are better than their opposite numbers. They win it 4:3 and that's if they are all fit.pip14 wrote:Getting the feeling Irish Media and Leinster fans are becoming a little over cocky about this game.....Yes their backs are better but we have them up front. In general Ulsters set piece is better, and with Afoa back we really could give them problems at scrum-time...
Sneaky feeling about this one!
I don't think BOD is that big an advantage over Cave. Maybe 2yrs ago but not now.Big-al wrote:Kearney vs Terblanche
BOD VS Cave
Sexton vs Jackson
Thats where their massive advantage comes from.
nail hit on head JBJackie Brown wrote:I don't think BOD is that big an advantage over Cave. Maybe 2yrs ago but not now.Big-al wrote:Kearney vs Terblanche
BOD VS Cave
Sexton vs Jackson
Thats where their massive advantage comes from.
Nacewa is the key player for them in the backs.
Not a massive difference in Kearney and Terblanche, Kearney has it in the physical stakes but Terblanche has it in the cute hoor stakes.Big-al wrote:Kearney vs Terblanche
BOD VS Cave
Sexton vs Jackson
Thats where their massive advantage comes from.
These are all Backline match up which can be very much negated by the forwards and will not matter much if one pack has superiority over the other the old saying goes "Forwards win matches, the backs decide by how much."Big-al wrote:Kearney vs Terblanche
BOD VS Cave
Sexton vs Jackson
Thats where their massive advantage comes from.
Hmm, in attack Kearney is sublime, arguably the best full back in the world and in awesome form.Rooster wrote:Not a massive difference in Kearney and Terblanche, Kearney has it in the physical stakes but Terblanche has it in the cute hoor stakes.Big-al wrote:Kearney vs Terblanche
BOD VS Cave
Sexton vs Jackson
Thats where their massive advantage comes from.
BOD v Cave, BOD on the wane and Cave with a point to prove, no massive advantage either.
Sexton v Jackson, Sexton has a big advantage here through experience, then again Ruan is our man with the boots for kicking so that cuts it down a bit.
Overall advantage Leinster but in no way is it a massive advantage
Big-al wrote:Hmm, in attack Kearney is sublime, arguably the best full back in the world and in awesome form.Rooster wrote:Not a massive difference in Kearney and Terblanche, Kearney has it in the physical stakes but Terblanche has it in the cute hoor stakes.Big-al wrote:Kearney vs Terblanche
BOD VS Cave
Sexton vs Jackson
Thats where their massive advantage comes from.
BOD v Cave, BOD on the wane and Cave with a point to prove, no massive advantage either.
Sexton v Jackson, Sexton has a big advantage here through experience, then again Ruan is our man with the boots for kicking so that cuts it down a bit.
Overall advantage Leinster but in no way is it a massive advantage
