Dan’s Not the Man.

[Columbo]

McCall leaving Sarries and turning down probably a host of quality job offers to come to Ulster, would be a akin to him leaving a high-end 6-figure job in London/New York to go work as a Level 4 Civil Servant job on 30k a year at County Hall in Ballymena.

Not. A. Chance.

People trading 6 figure jobs in London or New York for something considerably less remunerative in NI is actually pretty common! In fact I did it myself (except the 6 figure bit ) I honestly don’t think people over here know they’re living sometimes, if you have a good professional job and earn decently you can have a standard of living way above London / south of England. I know guys working for investment banks in London, earning couple of hundred grand basic and same again bonus (more in good years), and they live in 3 bed semis or terraces in London, and that’s considered a big house!!

So from that POV there’s no question that coming back could be attractive for McCall, as well as the fact he’d be coming home, closer to family etc.

Whether he’d be interested or not in an Irish job is another question.

[UlsterAreBrill]

I don't know about us having a quality team.

My 1st XV:

Kitshoff - Top quality international.
Herring - very good Euro standard. Always done well in Green as well.
Marty - was very good Euro standard but looks done.
Hendy - Top Quality International.
Treadwell - URC standard
Ewers - should be a very good Euro standard but ain't seen it yet for Ulster
McCann - promising to be a good Euro standard player but needs to keep pushing
Timoney - I really like Timoney. He's a good Euro standard for me, but I don't think he is international quality.

Cooney - Euro standard
Burns - URC standard

Stockdale - he has never threatened to get back to his 2018 form since dropping the ball over the line in Dublin in 2019. But that was a very high standard tbf, but he just doesn't impact games more than I'd expect any "normal" winger to do these days. He is URC standard for me these days (I know I'll get shouted down for this one . . )

Big Stu - European standard capable of either a big performance or a stupid performance

Hume - Euro standard

Bob - Barely URC standard this season

Lowry - URC/Euro standard

So I have 2 top quality players in Kitshoff and Hendy, and at a push, 3 players in Herring, Timoney and Big Stu that are at the upper end of Euro standard (question marks over Timoney and Stu).

Possibly 2 more if Ewers starts performing, and McCann can keep backing up his good early season form.

The fallen angels in there are Treaders, Hume, Stockdale, Bob and Lowry, who in the past have been top drawer, but it has been too long since they have consistently performed at a high enough level to be considered quality players anymore imo.

So all in all, I don't see the argument to say we have a strong squad.

Come at me bro

Sorry but this is nonsense.

Our front row is very good to excellent, Moore has been back for what, 3 games or so and looks done? Of course he won't look match fit at this stage.
Treadwell I agree with as per my post above, Hendy very good and would have a load more Ireland caps if not for other options.
Ewers has barely played
McCann has arguably been our best forward this season
Timoney not international quality, I agree, however that doesn't reduce his quality.

Stockdale, Harlequins aside, has been quite good this season as has Hume and Lowry.

I'm all for coaching changes but it is plain wrong to suggest our squad is not good enough. Our current best XV is on par with, if not better, than the team that beat Toulouse away 18 months ago. Coaching and being out of form is the issue, not player quality/talent/ability, or however you want to word it.

Not gonna nit-pick my way through all of that but would make two comments (one of which may not stand up to scrutiny as I haven't checked)

1 Hume is playing his way back into form. He has been much better this season than last, but perhaps his problem is trying too hard to makean impression to coaches both at Ravenspan and in Dublin? Needs to rein in the aggression at times.

2 As much as our current best XV may be on a par with the team that beat Toulouse away 18 months ago, I suggest that Toulouse are nothing like the team of 18 months ago. They are a team playing at the top of their game and full of comnfidence, which I doubt they were back then (albeit, Tououse are never a poor team).

Agreed but my point is that it’s nonsense that Ulster have suddenly become a bad team when considering strength on paper.

Our players are out of form but if/when we get a load of them back in we have a very good squad. That’s the challenge any new potential coach will have to solve but if they get it right they know they could be inheriting a top, top side.

You are right about Toulouse however you could replace that with any side. Coming close to Leinster in 2020/21 for example. The point is that, when at their best, our players are a match for any side, particularly in a one-off play off match.

[So It Is]

Teams that don't evolve grow stale. Its a fairly common thing in sport.

Having 4 or 5 lads playing worse now than they all did 2 or 3 years ago is a sign of a stagnent team. And when you don't sign anyone new to light a fire under them as you are crossing your fingers and toes that they'll come good again . . . Well. . . .you might be waiting a while.

The beating Toulouse away 2 years ago argument is nonsense as well. It was 2 years ago for goodness sake. The players are 2 years older, and in many cases, 2 years past their peaks in Ulster jerseys.

The team that day:

EOS - form has fallen off a cliff
Herring - 2 years older. Still good mind
Moore - serious knee injury since then, so not likely to ever be as good
AOC - 2 years older and out of form
Hendy - still good
Marcus - out of form
Timoney - still good
Vermuelen - better than any of our current backrowers

Cooney - better 2 years ago than now
Burns - meh
Moxham - never rated him tbf, but probably better back then
Stu - better player back then. Form has been off since RWC, apart from the Racing game
Hume - much better form 2 years ago
Baloucoune - see Hume x1 million
Lowry - see Hume

So apart Vermuelen, that whole team is still here. And maybe 3 of them are as good as they were that season. And there is no guarantee they'll all suddenly get back to that level (some will, no doubt).

You have to keep adding quality to teams, either through acquisitions or youth. You can't let it go stale like Ulster have. Kitshoff in for EOS, good business. Ewers and McCann in for Vermuelen, good replacement. But there needs to be more.

[HammerTime]

I think it'll take someone like a McCall who has won it all at club level to stick their boot up Ulsters collective hole. Our guys seem to get a bit too big for their boots after a few years with 'lesser' names (McCall ((before he left)), McLoughlin, Anscombe, McFarland et al.) The IRFU should go all out to get McCall back even if it was only for their own benefit (Ireland) in the future. DHump needs to make getting the other provinces (other than Leinster) competitive a top priority.

[UlsterNo9]

Is he still here? Ffs

[Horse15]

Completely outclassed at every level. Timoney, the Leinster man, the only bright spot. Apparently we have talent coming through… the whole system is wrecked. We have had the policy of trying to turn athletes into rugby players, that horse is flogged to death. This all starts at schools/youth level.

Ah well then. No point in blaming DMcF et al then?

Players are broken before they even get them.



FYI, that horse above is flogged to death. Is that you, 15?

The horse lives

Give 15 Michael Webb's job

Who needs medicine when we have a miracle man?

Very kind of you

[NoPayneNoGain]

From the reliable noise coming out of the camp it's more than just a coaching issue. There are reports of a quite toxic environment. Fingers pointed at Dan. If we removed the toxicity and just had the general incompetence, it would at least improve things for the players. At least a switched and focused team would not have conceded so many soft scores. If we don't have the cash for a sacking the irfu must stump up the dough.

I think it's patently obvious Dave- this is broken badly from within.

The likes of McCloskey and Hume come across as having poor, mouthy attitudes on the pitch. I don't mind that when they are playing well, as it brings a certain edge, but you can imagine it becoming toxic when the team is losing.

Hendy doesn't strike me as a ride or die type leader, great player and all that he is.

Who there on the pitch is angry enough at the current situation, to take the team by the scruff of the neck, channel their anger and frustration positively to go out and hit the opposition hard and gee up their team mates, and turn this around?






Erm.



Matty?

Leadership is definitely an issue.

Hendy doesn't seem to be a driver of standards like a sexton or POC, from what tid bits I've heard from Trimble and others.

Who does drive standards then?
Coaches already say that training isn't good enough.

Players like McIlroy, Jude, Izzy are going nowhere fast. No development. No progression.

Senior players and coaches need to own some of this responsibility

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[Bart S]

No players in the Ireland 23.
Another miserable Ulster stat but hardly undeserved.

[Soda]

Donkeys led by donkeys


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[Big Smoke Culchie]

I hope Humphries is totally ruthless when he fully takes over. Ulster have won nothing for years. Can't get any players into the International team. It's shameful really.

[Deraless]

Can't remember time when I've felt as despondent about Ulster Rugby. Certainly been a long time.
Not competitive in Europe. Skint. Leaderless. Not a single player on the international match day 23, even with injuries, and deservedly so. Coming away from games with 2 or 3 players putting on a decent show.
Need to get back on the meds.

[solidarity]

Simply dreadful but, as Bart says, hardly unreasonable.

[thecrouch]

Today's Ireland squad announcement is absolutely mortifying for McFarland and Petrie. I genuinely hope they walked around red-faced all day.

Imagine ballsing things up so badly that you cannot get a single one of your players into an Ireland 23.

[Horse15]

Today's Ireland squad announcement is absolutely mortifying for McFarland and Petrie. I genuinely hope they walked around red-faced all day.

Imagine ballsing things up so badly that you cannot get a single one of your players into an Ireland 23.

I would say the depth of the problem will be fully exposed when we see the number of Ulster players in the Ireland u20s game squad.

[Bigfacthunt]

20s at best will be Hopes and ward start for 20s Boyd on bench and possibly Ethan Graham on bench too.